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[2017-7-16. : 7:58 pm]  IskatuMesk -- so, I don't see a point in listing modding applications at all, tbh.[2017-7-16. : 7:57 pm] LoveLess -- Well SEN has had the same problem for the last 10 years, nobody cares about it enough to do more for it. Pretty much all Broodwar sites have that problem.[2017-7-16. : 7:56 pm] thekian -- LoveLessLoveLess shouted: SEN started as nothing but a message board though. The webpages were added as an extension. *And it shows[2017-7-16. : 7:55 pm] IskatuMesk -- Well, in the case of listing stuff like applications for new modders, almost no one checks the forum first - and they certainly won't bother with the forum if the site offers nothing useful[2017-7-16. : 7:55 pm] LoveLess -- Later on with the new versions, sure we got all kinds of new stuff added, but at it's core, it is a forum and all of it's content is user-driven.[2017-7-16. : 7:55 pm] LoveLess -- SEN started as nothing but a message board though. The webpages were added as an extension.[2017-7-16. : 7:54 pm] IskatuMesk -- The forum may be outdated, but usually the site itself stays active - and thus the forum by extension. SEN lives on the life support of memes[2017-7-16. : 7:53 pm] IskatuMesk -- A website is a construct run by a very small number of individuals, usually a single individual, a forum is just an extension of it[2017-7-16. : 7:53 pm]  Pr0nogo -- but because you have shown yourself to be a fucking mongoloid this entire conversation, i will not respond to you any further on this topic[2017-7-16. : 7:53 pm] IskatuMesk -- LoveLessLoveLess shouted: IskatuMesk Well SEN is a site that has it's content built by the users but all the topics are outdated. Topics =! website[2017-7-16. : 7:53 pm] thekian -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: thekian tell me where i'm wrong They aren't necessarily the tools that people need when they require unwanted software to run. For example.[2017-7-16. : 7:53 pm] Pr0nogo -- under normal circumstances when people bring up their disagreements or criticisms respectfully or at least without antagonism, I would discuss it with them and attempt to better explain my position[2017-7-16. : 7:53 pm] IskatuMesk -- I have done tracert and pings constantly during the worst of slowdowns and I almost always get ~100ms or less from it, compared to the 2-15 minute forum load times[2017-7-16. : 7:52 pm] LoveLess -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: shouldn't the site itself already be listing utilities anyways Well SEN is a site that has it's content built by the users but all the topics are outdated.[2017-7-16. : 7:52 pm] IskatuMesk -- There's nothing wrong with SEN's server. All the slowness is exclusively due to the abominable code it uses.[2017-7-16. : 7:52 pm] thekian -- Needless to say, any list of tools SEN had officially would probably break in three days.[2017-7-16. : 7:51 pm] Pr0nogo -- thekianthekian shouted: Voyager7456 "All the tools you need to mod SCBW, in one handy dandy thread!" tell me where i'm wrong[2017-7-16. : 7:51 pm] IskatuMesk -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: IskatuMesk Gol dragon / veldhar? Yes, I had discourse with him some years ago and he positively refused to let me update stuff so it was more accurate and useful[2017-7-16. : 7:51 pm] IskatuMesk -- there's tons of sites still around, just the people who run them are lazy[2017-7-16. : 7:51 pm] thekian -- Here is a picture of SEN's central office and servers. http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1047/2900/products/box_of_potatoes_grande.jpg[2017-7-16. : 7:48 pm] thekian -- The whole idea of the thread is to have a central source for modding tools - especially given that modding sites and references to the tools are growing more scarce every day.[2017-7-16. : 7:48 pm] LoveLess -- Otherwise, what are we complaining about. That he made a topic of the tools that he uses to mod in an attempt to educate more people on what you need to get started with modding? What a dick.[2017-7-16. : 7:47 pm] LoveLess -- thekianthekian shouted: There is something to be said about having a CHOICE in tools. Yes, go make a topic that does not bash Pr0nogo, just states that there are alternatives. List the alternatives, provide links.[2017-7-16. : 7:46 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: also, Scaiedit's creator absolutely refused to let me help him update the program. He was so fucking scared of letting someone update his shit he refused to even let me update the help file Gol dragon / veldhar?[2017-7-16. : 7:45 pm] LoveLess -- thekianthekian shouted: Voyager7456 "All the tools you need to mod SCBW, in one handy dandy thread!" doesn't say "the only tools you can use to mod SCBW"[2017-7-16. : 7:45 pm] Voyager7456 -- thekianthekian shouted: Voyager7456 "All the tools you need to mod SCBW, in one handy dandy thread!" All the tools you need to mod SCBW, not all tools that exist for modding SCBW.[2017-7-16. : 7:44 pm] thekian -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: thekian Nowhere does it say that is a comprehensive list of modding tools. "All the tools you need to mod SCBW, in one handy dandy thread!"[2017-7-16. : 7:43 pm] Voyager7456 -- thekianthekian shouted: Voyager7456 There. Is a difference. Between. Promoting. Tools. And. Providing. A bloody. List. Of them. In a thread. About listing. Modding tools. Nowhere does it say that is a comprehensive list of modding tools.[2017-7-16. : 7:43 pm] LoveLess -- Yet I am complaining about Pr0nogo, who is not in any way affiliated with SEN besides being one of it's users, from listing it as a resource in a topic he wrote.[2017-7-16. : 7:42 pm] LoveLess -- Are you? He made a topic about modding and added PyMS to the list of tools. You don't like them because you dislike python and that they need the python libraries/tools/yada to run. I actually agree with you, fuck that noise, I will not use PyMS either.[2017-7-16. : 7:42 pm] IskatuMesk -- LoveLessLoveLess shouted: thekian Draft has more options, is indefinitely more beginner friendly, and is more powerful. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Not like anyone is trying to sell a new religion or anything. If you want to advise people to download the older version, go for it, provide them the links and tools. If you don't want to put that effort forth, then sit down and shut the fuck up. I'd like to talk to you today about our Lord and Savior, Allah.[2017-7-16. : 7:40 pm] thekian -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: thekian No one is stopping anyone from using the older tools, but that doesn't mean we have to promote them. There. Is a difference. Between. Promoting. Tools. And. Providing. A bloody. List. Of them. In a thread. About listing. Modding tools.[2017-7-16. : 7:39 pm] Voyager7456 -- thekianthekian shouted: LoveLess Some people use both. For some reason. Thing is, just because you think that one thing is better, that doesn't mean that nobody should get to use anything else. No one is stopping anyone from using the older tools, but that doesn't mean we have to promote them.[2017-7-16. : 7:39 pm] poiuy_qwert -- SCAIEdit is out of date in its list of commands, parameter handling, and documentation, and there is no way for anyone to fix that. There are no major issues with IceCC that I know of, but PyICE just gives a lot more convenience and functionality: http://poiuyqwert.com/pyice/[2017-7-16. : 7:38 pm] LoveLess -- It's annoying listening to people who want to complain about something, but are not doing anything productive with their dissatisfaction otherwise.[2017-7-16. : 7:38 pm] thekian -- LoveLessLoveLess shouted: thekian Draft has more options, is indefinitely more beginner friendly, and is more powerful. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Not like anyone is trying to sell a new religion or anything. If you want to advise people to download the older version, go for it, provide them the links and tools. If you don't want to put that effort forth, then sit down and shut the fuck up. Are you just acting ignorant, or do you actually not know the context of the conversation?[2017-7-16. : 7:37 pm] LoveLess -- thekianthekian shouted: LoveLess Some people use both. For some reason. Thing is, just because you think that one thing is better, that doesn't mean that nobody should get to use anything else. Draft has more options, is indefinitely more beginner friendly, and is more powerful. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Not like anyone is trying to sell a new religion or anything. If you want to advise people to download the older version, go for it, provide them the links and tools. If you don't want to put that effort forth, then sit down and shut the fuck up.[2017-7-16. : 7:36 pm] thekian -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: but that thread is for NEW people who are NEW to modding, and they should start with the most functional, most up-to-date, and most maintained programs possible So why even bother including DatEdit when PyMS has its own editor?[2017-7-16. : 7:35 pm] thekian -- poiuy_qwertpoiuy_qwert shouted: thekian Why does it matter if PyMS "copied" the look of other tools? Its to help people transition to a newer tool without as much learning curve. Its not like there are a ton of better ways to do the UI for those two tools as well. I also asked most people if I could base my UI off of their programs because of those facts I'm not criticizing you for doing so. My point is that they're obviously good enough to be reused for Pr0nogo's favorite toolset...[2017-7-16. : 7:34 pm] IskatuMesk -- Also, I stuck with icecc using old opcodes because it was natural. There was literally no reason to update anything including the opcodes because nothing was broken, and updating just to update is silly[2017-7-16. : 7:34 pm] Pr0nogo -- but that thread is for NEW people who are NEW to modding, and they should start with the most functional, most up-to-date, and most maintained programs possible[2017-7-16. : 7:34 pm] poiuy_qwert -- thekianthekian shouted: By the way, are you seriously going to act like IceCC and SCAIEdit are inferior tools, when they don't seem to have corruption problems and PyMS blatantly copied them? Why does it matter if PyMS "copied" the look of other tools? Its to help people transition to a newer tool without as much learning curve. Its not like there are a ton of better ways to do the UI for those two tools as well. I also asked most people if I could base my UI off of their programs because of those facts[2017-7-16. : 7:33 pm] thekian -- LoveLessLoveLess shouted: Well I mean it's similar to saying, "Why use Draft? X-tra still works!" Some people use both. For some reason. Thing is, just because you think that one thing is better, that doesn't mean that nobody should get to use anything else.[2017-7-16. : 7:32 pm] IskatuMesk -- I did, however, manage to create every custom AI I'd ever made, which is hundreds easily, with that program and get them functional.[2017-7-16. : 7:32 pm] thekian -- I think the problem is probably with the person who can't use it properly rather than the person who can.[2017-7-16. : 7:32 pm] LoveLess -- Well I mean it's similar to saying, "Why use Draft? X-tra still works!"[2017-7-16. : 7:31 pm] IskatuMesk -- also, Scaiedit's creator absolutely refused to let me help him update the program. He was so fucking scared of letting someone update his shit he refused to even let me update the help file[2017-7-16. : 7:31 pm] thekian -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: i could never get icecc to work but even if i did, pyice has significantly more utility and is actively maintained IceCC has always perfectly worked for me...[2017-7-16. : 7:31 pm] Pr0nogo -- i work with someone who does most of their work in scaiedit and i have to transcode a lot of what they've done and error correct because it uses inaccurate/deprecated function calls[2017-7-16. : 7:30 pm] thekian -- Ain't nobody wants to install Python. My MAIN problem is that Pr0nogo is trying to make everyone use it when there do exist working alternate tools.[2017-7-16. : 7:30 pm] Pr0nogo -- i could never get icecc to work but even if i did, pyice has significantly more utility and is actively maintained[2017-7-16. : 7:30 pm] IskatuMesk -- but without having proper unit testing and comparisons I can't say for sure, just an instinct I got from how unreliable custom code was[2017-7-16. : 7:30 pm] IskatuMesk -- only problem with scaiedit is I think its compiling process is either buggy or doesn't work 100% with newer sc versions[2017-7-16. : 7:24 pm] thekian -- By the way, are you seriously going to act like IceCC and SCAIEdit are inferior tools, when they don't seem to have corruption problems and PyMS blatantly copied them?[2017-7-16. : 7:23 pm] thekian -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: because otherwise you accept that raynor's raiders are raiding the hyperion's liquor cabinet while raynor talks to tassadar for an entire campaign's running time LMAO Sounds accurate to me.  |
