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[2016-5-01. : 4:11 pm]  Roy -- Not to mention it's going to break formatting for people who expect tabs to be the default size.[2016-5-01. : 4:11 pm]  Moose -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Roy tabs were literally invented to jump to a specific point in the line, or multiple points, of a typewriter. What else you gonna use that for, if not to have text start at a specific place? To navigate between elements of a web page, fields of an input form, etc.[2016-5-01. : 4:10 pm] Roy -- How do you even configure tab size in a web browser? You need CSS, which means a user needs a userscript to have their preferred indentation apply on the web.[2016-5-01. : 4:10 pm] NudeRaider -- RoyRoy shouted: NudeRaider Tabs aren't for aligning text, and they aren't always used for indenting; some text fields don't even accept tabs. The problem with tabs is that there is no consistent use for them. tabs were literally invented to jump to a specific point in the line, or multiple points, of a typewriter. What else you gonna use that for, if not to have text start at a specific place?[2016-5-01. : 4:07 pm] Roy -- If you like wide tabs and someone else doesn't, then their code is going to create a horizontal scrollbar for you because their setup finds the line of code is not too long.[2016-5-01. : 4:01 pm] Roy -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: and being the computer-like mind I am, I want them to treat semantically which is why I prefer tabs. they say "indent" and how you interpret it, is your choice/problem. And it also explains why I like the mixed mode... use spaces to separate keywords, like param lists. Tabs aren't for aligning text, and they aren't always used for indenting; some text fields don't even accept tabs. The problem with tabs is that there is no consistent use for them.[2016-5-01. : 3:45 pm]  TiKels -- If there's one thing I'm not, it's lazy. I just spent the last week and a half working to sun up 60% of the days lol. I never expected this out of college coming in[2016-5-01. : 3:38 pm] Moose -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: Sacrieur no I mean the project was to design a missile and it ended up having too many constraints. Like "it has to be below this weight and size, burn the motor this quickly, have this chamber pressure, and go to Mach 3.2" but you can't do it all. It just isn't a possible assignment. The person who wrote the project several years ago told the class "you're going to find out that the problem is over-defined, identify critical parameters and explained why you picked those" Nah, you're just lazy. Are you actually claiming to know the assignment and your own life better than Sacrieur?[2016-5-01. : 3:38 pm] jjf28 -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: That reminds me, we should get into a good English spacing versus French spacing debate. «quelle?»[2016-5-01. : 3:37 pm] TiKels -- SacrieurSacrieur shouted: The only thing that's going on here is your professor weeding out the crap. no I mean the project was to design a missile and it ended up having too many constraints. Like "it has to be below this weight and size, burn the motor this quickly, have this chamber pressure, and go to Mach 3.2" but you can't do it all. It just isn't a possible assignment. The person who wrote the project several years ago told the class "you're going to find out that the problem is over-defined, identify critical parameters and explained why you picked those"[2016-5-01. : 3:35 pm] Moose -- That reminds me, we should get into a good English spacing versus French spacing debate.[2016-5-01. : 3:30 pm] Moose -- https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4h84v2/us_spy_court_didnt_reject_a_single_government/d2ofehv?context=3[2016-5-01. : 3:28 pm] jjf28 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: and being the computer-like mind I am, I want them to treat semantically which is why I prefer tabs. they say "indent" and how you interpret it, is your choice/problem. And it also explains why I like the mixed mode... use spaces to separate keywords, like param lists. sure, you can't just ignore very real problems they can cause tho  [2016-5-01. : 3:24 pm] NudeRaider -- and being the computer-like mind I am, I want them to treat semantically which is why I prefer tabs. they say "indent" and how you interpret it, is your choice/problem. And it also explains why I like the mixed mode... use spaces to separate keywords, like param lists.[2016-5-01. : 3:22 pm] NudeRaider -- pretty much this: The problem is that we're using tabs and spaces to format text for aesthetic reasons rather than treating them semantically - tabs are for indenting and aligning text, spaces are for separating keywords.[2016-5-01. : 3:20 pm] Moose -- Though, actually, the demo animation isn't even using a monospaced font, so it's already horrendous[2016-5-01. : 3:19 pm] Moose -- It looks like it should display properly in any IDE by design. Whether or not the IDE would edit it properly is the question.[2016-5-01. : 3:16 pm] Clokr_ -- RoyRoy shouted: Back when I was a fan of tabs, I liked the idea of Elastic Tabstops. Interesting idea, but I guess it has the same problems usual tabs do: it will only look pretty in the right IDE.[2016-5-01. : 3:08 pm] Moose -- It's a shame you guys don't use it. If tabs versus spaces went like this, I can only imagine a vi versus emacs debate.[2016-5-01. : 3:04 pm] Moose -- "My IDE of choice is Linux. Heck, it can run other IDEs, serve websites, execute programs in a variety of languages, and by combining stuff (the pipe) it can run programs together that were written in different languages as though they were one. That thing is awesome. Oh, and it can connect to the internet and do all sorts of interesting things with it too, including spawning other versions of itself. Coolio! Don't settle for an IDE when you already have linux."[2016-5-01. : 2:48 pm] Moose -- Or at least have made significant progress in rendering this a non-issue[2016-5-01. : 2:47 pm] Moose -- I just want to hope that by now we've figured out how to make tools such that we don't really need to care about this stuff.[2016-5-01. : 2:46 pm] Roy -- I use -w for diff files a lot of times. Visual Studio likes to mess around with its csproj files in ways that I'll never understand.[2016-5-01. : 2:45 pm] Moose -- RoyRoy shouted: You can have Git be whitespace agnostic, but that causes problems, which is why it's not on by default. True, TBH, fam, I've never tried it, I just like to talk shit. XD[2016-5-01. : 2:43 pm] Moose -- Whitespace mattering? What are you trying to do, have us be productive instead of debating about whitespace preferences??[2016-5-01. : 2:42 pm] Roy -- Well, that and there are languages and file types where whitespace actually matters.[2016-5-01. : 2:42 pm] Roy -- You can have Git be whitespace agnostic, but that causes problems, which is why it's not on by default.[2016-5-01. : 2:42 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: alias git='git -Xignore-space-change' # LINUX! *[2016-5-01. : 2:41 pm] Clokr_ -- You are also as dependent on the IDE as when using tabs, if not more.[2016-5-01. : 2:40 pm] Roy -- This is slowly approaching my ideal solution of minified source code with universal user-customized formatting.[2016-5-01. : 2:39 pm] Roy -- That doesn't solve formatting issues. You'd need a diff tool that can format based on user preferences, and have those preferences sync with the IDE regardless of the interface.[2016-5-01. : 2:39 pm] Moose -- Or use a diff tool that is also whitespace agnostic like the compiler.[2016-5-01. : 2:37 pm] Roy -- Yeah, this method has 3 space tabs in source control, and the next one has 4 space tabs. And those formatting fixes don't reflect in source control. Basically your whole history is trashed.[2016-5-01. : 2:36 pm] Moose -- RoyRoy shouted: Right, so if you want to add whitespace to make the code look cleaner because you made some modifications, oh well! But the code didn't need cleaning up because you auto formatted it before you commited. XDDDD[2016-5-01. : 2:36 pm] Moose -- You would probably end up with different files using different conventions based on who changed them last, though.[2016-5-01. : 2:36 pm] Roy -- Right, so if you want to add whitespace to make the code look cleaner because you made some modifications, oh well![2016-5-01. : 2:35 pm] Moose -- RoyRoy shouted: So your source in version control is going to look awful, since it's not preserving line breaks or indentations. It ignores whitespace CHANGES, not all whitespace.[2016-5-01. : 2:35 pm] Moose -- Clokr_Clokr_ shouted: Mini Moose 2707 What about if you use it directly from the command line? ;o LITERALLY addressed that already Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: alias git='git -Xignore-space-change' # LINUX! [2016-5-01. : 2:34 pm] Roy -- So your source in version control is going to look awful, since it's not preserving line breaks or indentations.[2016-5-01. : 2:34 pm] Clokr_ -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: IDK, the IDE probably lets you specify command line options to use with your VCS What about if you use it directly from the command line? ;o[2016-5-01. : 2:33 pm] Moose -- IDK, the IDE probably lets you specify command line options to use with your VCS[2016-5-01. : 2:31 pm] Roy -- That's great if you want to use whitespace flags for every VCS operation you ever do. Still makes your commits affect entire files.[2016-5-01. : 2:28 pm] Roy -- That's probably the worst solution. Whitespace merge conflicts everywhere.[2016-5-01. : 2:27 pm] Moose -- Or they just use a good IDE and set their own options and use a recursive automatic format because it's two thousand and sixteen and we have technology now![2016-5-01. : 2:26 pm] Roy -- Clokr_Clokr_ shouted: Tabs are as bad as loaded guns now. I'm just curious: if there are two people collaborating on a project, and they prefer distinct indentation lengths (4 spaces vs 2 spaces for example), how do you deal with this situation without tabs? They decide on a convention and stick to it. Same with curly braces and whatnot.[2016-5-01. : 2:21 pm] Clokr_ -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: Clokr_ Automatic formatting LMAO. It's 2016 bro. Eww[2016-5-01. : 2:16 pm] Moose -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: Niggas still program in like Notepad LMAO [2016-5-01. : 2:15 pm] lil-Inferno -- Clokr_Clokr_ shouted: Tabs are as bad as loaded guns now. I'm just curious: if there are two people collaborating on a project, and they prefer distinct indentation lengths (4 spaces vs 2 spaces for example), how do you deal with this situation without tabs? Automatic formatting LMAO. It's 2016 bro. |
