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[2021-8-31. : 5:25 pm]  lil-Inferno -- I know that NYC, San Francisco, maybe some other cities have mandated showing proof of vaccination for indoor stuff across the board[2021-8-31. : 5:24 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider My city has an indoor mask mandate except for venues where they require proof of vaccination, but there will never be a federal mandate for this, and as of now businesses opt into it rather than it be mandated yeah it's going to be opt-in here as well[2021-8-31. : 5:23 pm] jjf28 -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: There's a reason why the northeast in the US is faring quite a lot better than the deep south florida and texas keep making memes xD[2021-8-31. : 5:22 pm] lil-Inferno -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider Not everyone agrees, but stuff like polio, smallpox, measles, etc. vaccines are required to attend school and other stuff. So a lot of what people are getting mad about with vaccine passports or w/e isn't unprecedented at all Also worth noting that these requirements have been in place since like the 1800s[2021-8-31. : 5:21 pm] lil-Inferno -- There's a reason why the northeast in the US is faring quite a lot better than the deep south[2021-8-31. : 5:20 pm] lil-Inferno -- Now that there's FDA approval I imagine we may see requirements like proof of vaccination for flights, workplaces, etc. but there won't be consistency[2021-8-31. : 5:19 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Are there any plans in the US to allow businesses to open without restrictions if they only take in tested, vaccinated or recovered customers? That's what's going on here atm and naturally the anti-vaxxers are not amused. I think it's a fair compromise tho. My city has an indoor mask mandate except for venues where they require proof of vaccination, but there will never be a federal mandate for this, and as of now businesses opt into it rather than it be mandated[2021-8-31. : 5:18 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno my point is that everyone agrees you can vax them. If 15% or even more as you say are against it, you can't just force them Not everyone agrees, but stuff like polio, smallpox, measles, etc. vaccines are required to attend school and other stuff. So a lot of what people are getting mad about with vaccine passports or w/e isn't unprecedented at all[2021-8-31. : 5:17 pm] NudeRaider -- Are there any plans in the US to allow businesses to open without restrictions if they only take in tested, vaccinated or recovered customers? That's what's going on here atm and naturally the anti-vaxxers are not amused. I think it's a fair compromise tho.[2021-8-31. : 5:09 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider Are we to assume ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine won't have unforeseen complications later, or that the virus itself won't? Certainly we don't know about the long term effects of that. mRNA vaccines have been shown to be very safe. If you don't trust them, there are also vaccines available that use older tech my point is that everyone agrees you can vax them. If 15% or even more as you say are against it, you can't just force them[2021-8-31. : 5:09 pm] lil-Inferno -- Yes. As the virus evolves to become more transmissible, the herd immunity threshold gets higher. We either get there the easy way with vaccinations, or the hard way with mass deaths, hospitalizations, and long term complications[2021-8-31. : 5:08 pm] NudeRaider -- given that covid is still transmissible when you're vaccinated you'd need a *much* higher percentage of immunized (recovered and vaccinated) people to be able to protect unvaccinated people. Reason being it will still find hosts and as such not die out.[2021-8-31. : 5:07 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno I haven't checked, I'm assuming here: The diseases you mentioned weren't done with a vaccination technique that hasn't seen much use outside of labs. So this is one argument I find legitimate: To be afraid it could have unforeseen complications later. And another thing I'm just throwing out there without checking: There weren't mass protests of people actively saying "No!". Assuming mostly everyone who wants has it now we have like 15% that don't want it.It was surely generally considered a good thing. So if the anti-vaxxers were maybe (random number) <1% I could see the world deciding to overrule them. Are we to assume ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine won't have unforeseen complications later, or that the virus itself won't? Certainly we don't know about the long term effects of that. mRNA vaccines have been shown to be very safe. If you don't trust them, there are also vaccines available that use older tech[2021-8-31. : 5:05 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: NudeRaider ugh I'm so bad at coherent writing when I'm distracted by other things. Swap the 2nd and 3rd last sentences. (=> Measles vaccine was a good thing, 15% don't want corona vaccine) It's much larger than 15% here in the US, to the point that without forcing vaccinations or otherwise making life inconvenient for the unvaccinated, we won't reach herd immunity and this will last forever[2021-8-31. : 5:05 pm] lil-Inferno -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: lil-Inferno On this note, Voy isn't wishing death upon you. Merely he's saying that since you've chosen not to minimize the possibility of hospitalization or death, that you don't deprive others of resources because of your decision asking* not saying[2021-8-31. : 5:01 pm] NudeRaider -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno I haven't checked, I'm assuming here: The diseases you mentioned weren't done with a vaccination technique that hasn't seen much use outside of labs. So this is one argument I find legitimate: To be afraid it could have unforeseen complications later. And another thing I'm just throwing out there without checking: There weren't mass protests of people actively saying "No!". Assuming mostly everyone who wants has it now we have like 15% that don't want it.It was surely generally considered a good thing. So if the anti-vaxxers were maybe (random number) <1% I could see the world deciding to overrule them. ugh I'm so bad at coherent writing when I'm distracted by other things. Swap the 2nd and 3rd last sentences. (=> Measles vaccine was a good thing, 15% don't want corona vaccine)[2021-8-31. : 4:54 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: lil-Inferno On this note, Voy isn't wishing death upon you. Merely he's saying that since you've chosen not to minimize the possibility of hospitalization or death, that you don't deprive others of resources because of your decision or more concise: You don't take precautions, I'm not gonna help you when you need it.[2021-8-31. : 4:53 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider Not sure why you're playing defense for a virus that has killed and will continue to kill or maim millions of people. Are you aware of why polio, measles, etc. are virtually nonexistent? Freedoms end where it harms others. There is a reason some free speech is not protected I haven't checked, I'm assuming here: The diseases you mentioned weren't done with a vaccination technique that hasn't seen much use outside of labs. So this is one argument I find legitimate: To be afraid it could have unforeseen complications later. And another thing I'm just throwing out there without checking: There weren't mass protests of people actively saying "No!". Assuming mostly everyone who wants has it now we have like 15% that don't want it.It was surely generally considered a good thing. So if the anti-vaxxers were maybe (random number) <1% I could see the world deciding to overrule them.[2021-8-31. : 4:48 pm] lil-Inferno -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: Nobody wants you to die. Quite the opposite really On this note, Voy isn't wishing death upon you. Merely he's saying that since you've chosen not to minimize the possibility of hospitalization or death, that you don't deprive others of resources because of your decision[2021-8-31. : 4:46 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno I don't like it either but I also believe in freedom to choose what happens with your body. Luckily since we have vaccines the people that want it can protect themselves from serious illness. So now the dilemma is "only" between "right to walk around without mask" (yeah yeah I know, other restrictions as well) and "forcefully vaccinate". And I can't, in good conscience, command unwilling people to be vaccinated so I can get rid of the mask. Not sure why you're playing defense for a virus that has killed and will continue to kill or maim millions of people. Are you aware of why polio, measles, etc. are virtually nonexistent? Freedoms end where it harms others. There is a reason some free speech is not protected[2021-8-31. : 4:39 pm]  Ultraviolet -- I appreciate that at least you don't think I deserve to die for having an opinion you disagree with. I don't totally mind if people think I'm dumb or w/e, but death wishes kinda sting.[2021-8-31. : 4:33 pm] NudeRaider -- UltravioletUltraviolet shouted: perhaps not soon enough, but certainly not too early was about to say that : [2021-8-31. : 4:31 pm] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: doesn't everyone know that the only way to achieve anything is by trusting your gut, flying by the seat of your pants, and disrespecting authority until they have a change of heart and declare you the good guy? Sounds cool. Wanna do that with you some time  [2021-8-31. : 4:29 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: Maybe the guy willfully helping to prolong a pandemic, who has decided to be on the side of a virus, should be a better person that cares about their peers I don't like it either but I also believe in freedom to choose what happens with your body. Luckily since we have vaccines the people that want it can protect themselves from serious illness. So now the dilemma is "only" between "right to walk around without mask" (yeah yeah I know, other restrictions as well) and "forcefully vaccinate". And I can't, in good conscience, command unwilling people to be vaccinated so I can get rid of the mask.[2021-8-31. : 4:27 pm] Vrael -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Vrael I'm genuinely suprised some 'Murican recognizes that EU countries are not all the same. how... how DARE you... how dare you assume I, a full blooded Murican, have any knowledge of the EU? you take that back right now Then again, it's you so I'm not *that* surprised. <3[2021-8-31. : 4:26 pm] Vrael -- doesn't everyone know that the only way to achieve anything is by trusting your gut, flying by the seat of your pants, and disrespecting authority until they have a change of heart and declare you the good guy?[2021-8-31. : 4:24 pm] Vrael -- what have "numbers" and "causal relationships" ever accomplished anyway[2021-8-31. : 4:23 pm] Vrael -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: you guys should start debating what I say, not whatever you make up. I said we help ill people no matter what they said before. Nothing more nothing less. Of course we ALSO correct them when what they said before is wrong. But we can do that respectfully. No need to suddenly antagonize people we respected before. Hate never helped anything. All you do is dig trenches that make it harder to approach people. hey why don't you just take your respectful attitude and stick it where the sun don't shine OK? We ain't gon' respec nuffin round these here parts[2021-8-31. : 4:12 pm] lil-Inferno -- Maybe the guy willfully helping to prolong a pandemic, who has decided to be on the side of a virus, should be a better person that cares about their peers[2021-8-31. : 4:08 pm] NudeRaider -- see, and that's why we're having this discussion. I'm trying to make you a better person that cares about their peers.[2021-8-31. : 4:06 pm] Dem0n -- He's already made up his mind. No amount of respect will make him change it. Now I'm just letting him know he's a dumbass.[2021-8-31. : 4:05 pm] NudeRaider -- you guys should start debating what I say, not whatever you make up. I said we help ill people no matter what they said before. Nothing more nothing less. Of course we ALSO correct them when what they said before is wrong. But we can do that respectfully. No need to suddenly antagonize people we respected before. Hate never helped anything. All you do is dig trenches that make it harder to approach people.[2021-8-31. : 4:02 pm] Dem0n -- UV is straight up spreading misinformation with his bullshit links in his thread. None of those articles are scientific or peer-reviewed, and they're all blatantly false and just fueling his confirmation bias. Fuck being respectful to morons like that.[2021-8-31. : 4:02 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno it's not semantics if we're talking about letting someone get seriously ill to teach him a lesson or to let him die ... teaching him a lesson? Not if he's dead you let him die out of spite, not to help him. Totally different thing. I'm not sure what you expect any of us to do when someone actually catches the rona, all we can do is recommend a highly effective preventative measure and show why it works lmao[2021-8-31. : 3:57 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider Not necessarily saying he was, but others certainly have. I understand Voy's frustration, and I have a lot of it myself yeah but I was quoting Voy because he was unacceptably rude, while others have shown respect in disagreement[2021-8-31. : 3:55 pm] NudeRaider -- *No, if he's dead, you let him die out of spite, not to help him.[2021-8-31. : 3:54 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider Death, serious illness, doesn't matter because the message would be the same. You're just poking at semantics it's not semantics if we're talking about letting someone get seriously ill to teach him a lesson or to let him die ... teaching him a lesson? Not if he's dead you let him die out of spite, not to help him. Totally different thing.[2021-8-31. : 3:36 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno where did voy try to correct misinformation? Not necessarily saying he was, but others certainly have. I understand Voy's frustration, and I have a lot of it myself[2021-8-31. : 3:30 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: lil-Inferno ugh. I give up. Total misrepresentation of what I said. u[2021-8-31. : 3:30 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Why are you focusing on death so much? This is a very unlikely outcome of a COVID infection. Death, serious illness, doesn't matter because the message would be the same. You're just poking at semantics[2021-8-31. : 3:29 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: Alright. They can die then and I won't try to interfere in that. Apparently that is the respectful stance ugh. I give up. Total misrepresentation of what I said.[2021-8-31. : 3:22 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: This isn't a debate. We're just trying to correct misinformation where did voy try to correct misinformation?[2021-8-31. : 3:20 pm] NudeRaider -- Why are you focusing on death so much? This is a very unlikely outcome of a COVID infection.[2021-8-31. : 3:19 pm] lil-Inferno -- This isn't a debate. We're just trying to correct misinformation[2021-8-31. : 3:19 pm] lil-Inferno -- Alright. They can die then and I won't try to interfere in that. Apparently that is the respectful stance[2021-8-31. : 3:18 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: NudeRaider So, what, we're supposed to respect them putting themselves on a path to their own death or injury? Is it not more respectful to want to educate and prevent that from happening? that's exactly what I'm suggesting. I'm not saying you can't challenge them in debate.[2021-8-31. : 3:18 pm] lil-Inferno -- There's no disagreement to be had when it comes to science and health, especially when it affects others. It wouldn't be good if we saw some misinformation posted here and didn't collectively dunk on it[2021-8-31. : 3:18 pm] NudeRaider -- I don't know. Maybe some. But simple the East Coast vs. West Coast in the 90s should've gotten notice by a lot of people. Then are the Texan, Californian and Midwestern prejudices which are all pretty well known.[2021-8-31. : 3:16 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Voyager7456 what an asinine stance. Of course we help our fellow humans in times of emergency. You get your "I told you so moment", sure, but don't get to let them die. I'm so sick of this "we vs. them". We may disagree, doesn't mean we can still respect each other. So, what, we're supposed to respect them putting themselves on a path to their own death or injury? Is it not more respectful to want to educate and prevent that from happening?[2021-8-31. : 3:15 pm] lil-Inferno -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Vrael I'm genuinely suprised some 'Murican recognizes that EU countries are not all the same. Europeans really be out here thinking American states are all the same tho lmao Then again, it's you so I'm not *that* surprised. <3[2021-8-31. : 3:13 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: also adding context to the fauci reference, he's discussing differences in variants: "But what we've learned that's new, John, in answer to your question is that when you look at the level of virus in the nasopharynx of people who are vaccinated, who get breakthrough infections, it's really quite high and equivalent to the level of virus in the nasopharynx of unvaccinated people who get infected. That's very different from the Alpha variant. The Alpha variant the level of virus in a vaccinated person was extremely low compared in the-- in the vaccinated people compared to the unvaccinated people. Not so with Delta." afaik delta is the only variant that matters now[2021-8-31. : 3:07 pm] NudeRaider -- LanthanideLanthanide shouted: NZ numbers have the advantage of being relatively 'clean' in terms of data gathering, we have good records of how many people got COVID and who gave it to whom, how and when yeah if I was to name one thing I learned from your discord postings about corona, it's this[2021-8-31. : 3:05 pm] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: bet you guys are like finland anyway and don't even socially interact in the first place, course you dont spread disease I'm genuinely suprised some 'Murican recognizes that EU countries are not all the same. Then again, it's you so I'm not *that* surprised. <3[2021-8-31. : 3:00 pm] NudeRaider -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: y'all horse paste swilling buffoons want to take your own chances, fine, but don't go changing your mind when it takes a turn for the worse what an asinine stance. Of course we help our fellow humans in times of emergency. You get your "I told you so moment", sure, but don't get to let them die. I'm so sick of this "we vs. them". We may disagree, doesn't mean we can still respect each other.[2021-8-31. : 2:10 pm] Zycorax -- Finland is pretty warm during the summer and it's only the northern parts that sometimes have extreme cold during the winter ;o[2021-8-31. : 1:09 pm] Luigi -- VraelVrael shouted: bet you guys are like finland anyway and don't even socially interact in the first place, course you dont spread disease Except Finland is extremely cold most of the time. |
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