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[2021-9-02. : 7:33 pm]  Vrael -- if they had succeeded, its possible that the states could have organized against it, or the military may have taken it upon itself to oust the occupation, but that's already getting into civil war territory[2021-9-02. : 7:30 pm] NudeRaider -- I'm aware it was serious, where officials were in personal danger, but the democracy? Never.[2021-9-02. : 7:29 pm] Vrael -- it was pre-meditated and supported by a number of our elected officials[2021-9-02. : 7:28 pm] Vrael -- while we are fortuitous to have a federal system in which the balance of power is distributed across many pillars of government, it was much closer to a takeover than you give it credit for[2021-9-02. : 7:27 pm] Voyager7456 -- it's also worth nothing the survival rate for unvaccinated patients is pretty poor, and downright abysmal once they're on a ventilator - so in a lot of cases not only are they denying treatment to people but also those resources are being burned for nothing[2021-9-02. : 7:26 pm] NudeRaider -- there was literally no chance of it achieving anything. Just an angry mob doing some damage.[2021-9-02. : 7:26 pm] Vrael -- it was an armed insurrection at an attempt to take over our government[2021-9-02. : 7:24 pm] NudeRaider -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: they are absolutely not compared to what you'Re describing. We were never even at risk of having to do triage. Thank god. We saw the pictures in Italy and NY. Might haven been one of the most emotionally scarring things I've seen in my life. I think only ISIS crimes topped that. scarring is not the correct word. I can handle it, but it has moved me.[2021-9-02. : 7:23 pm] NudeRaider -- they are absolutely not compared to what you'Re describing. We were never even at risk of having to do triage. Thank god. We saw the pictures in Italy and NY. Might haven been one of the most emotionally scarring things I've seen in my life. I think only ISIS crimes topped that.[2021-9-02. : 7:23 pm] Vrael -- so the anger at these people is intertwined with anger over things like the recent Texas abortion laws, voter suppression, and so forth[2021-9-02. : 7:22 pm] Vrael -- but in the states the anti-vaxxers have a huge overlap with the MAGA crowd and neo-nazi/other fascist/authoritarian groups (as well as just regular old dumb Karens)[2021-9-02. : 7:21 pm] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: especially when many anti-vaxxers are more than likely just idiot victims of the disinformation circulation and not themselves malevolent this is most of the reason why I'm so lenient with them.[2021-9-02. : 7:20 pm] Voyager7456 -- You're hurting people either way, I don't think it's "throwing your humanity out the window" to try and minimize harm to innocent people[2021-9-02. : 7:20 pm] Vrael -- especially when many anti-vaxxers are more than likely just idiot victims of the disinformation circulation and not themselves malevolent[2021-9-02. : 7:19 pm] Vrael -- while it would be a potentially slippery slope to empower hospitals to refuse to treat patients who have failed to vaccinate, its also not without merit, and the idea of holding individuals responsible for their choices also has merit - though as Oh_Man pointed out earlier the consequence of death is quite extreme[2021-9-02. : 7:17 pm] NudeRaider -- The solution is not to become heartless. The solution is to fight the problem on all fronts. Seek aid from regions/countries less affected. Increase efforts to restock supplies. Do campaigns where mobile vaccination stations are visiting anti-vaxxers (probably many poor areas), do ad campaigns how bad the situation in the hospitals is. Just a few things off the top of the head. But lets not throw our humanity out of the window.[2021-9-02. : 7:13 pm] NudeRaider -- I indeed didn't know it had flared up that bad again in the U.S. I agree it's not fair. Anger is absolutely understandable. Which is why I don't consider you heartless bastards, which would be totally appropriate under other circumstances. But none of this changes that medical care is a basic human right that cannot under any circumstances be tied to anything. Barring triage rules. It's not fair if a person dies because an anti-vaxxer took the ICU bed. But this cannot lead to disallowing them from seeking aid. Disencouraging them from it when they know the hospital is at capacity is a grey area I might accept under these circumstances.[2021-9-02. : 7:07 pm] Vrael -- in many places you cannot get medical aid for non-COVID sicknesses now because anti-vaxxers are taking up all the resources - the argument is that this is not fair because the anti-vaxxers have the choice to get vaccinated while other medical conditions nothing voluntary can be done about[2021-9-02. : 7:05 pm] Vrael -- so many americans are angry because through clear fault of the anti-vaxxers we have been forced into a situation of scarce medical resources in which not all medical aid is possible to be given[2021-9-02. : 7:03 pm] Vrael -- for those of you non-U.S. folks who may not be aware, in many locations in the U.S. our hospital systems are out of resources because they are overloaded with COVID19 cases[2021-9-02. : 7:02 pm] Vrael -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Vrael this is not how it works with healthcare. If we were talking about being disallowed from being at the beach because you leave your garbage their, yeah obviously your bad behavior that affects others justifies the ban. But not when it's literally about lives. Medical aid is to be granted to everyone equally. The only exception from this is triage where the decisions are based on survival chances. the discussion is essentially about triage[2021-9-02. : 6:57 pm] NudeRaider -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Voyager7456 why not? Sounds fun. oh wait, you're right. SEN would just break down again. Damn I write too much. OK I stop now. Bye[2021-9-02. : 6:57 pm] NudeRaider -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Vrael this is not how it works with healthcare. If we were talking about being disallowed from being at the beach because you leave your garbage their, yeah obviously your bad behavior that affects others justifies the ban. But not when it's literally about lives. Medical aid is to be granted to everyone equally. The only exception from this is triage where the decisions are based on survival chances. *there smh[2021-9-02. : 6:55 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: ya, just need to inject it into your veins uv literally is uv. he doesn't need to. (Was Luigis point, I believe)[2021-9-02. : 6:54 pm] NudeRaider -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: to be clear, I am being facetious here please don't start a 5 page debate about how I want to drone strike UV why not? Sounds fun.[2021-9-02. : 6:53 pm] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: jjf28 was thinking more court ordered cease and desist and less empowering big companies but on the bright side just think how clear and consistent the news would be if amazon just controlled everything? it'd be almost as great as north korea great point. Have free thougt! But not too free pls, or you don't get to use hospitals  [2021-9-02. : 6:52 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: making big tech arbiters of censorship has its own problems yeah never was a fan of that. But I guess it's an easy solution for the government.[2021-9-02. : 6:50 pm] NudeRaider -- lil-Infernolil-Inferno shouted: Vrael sure, but he still thought it was straight bussin' enough to share it tbf people were anxiously awaiting and actively asking for a response. You got what you demanded, now don't go using it against him.[2021-9-02. : 6:42 pm] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: hey don't you agree with me, the shoutbox is for disagreements you canadian spaceship best "insult" (?) ever  (sorry for "agreeing")[2021-9-02. : 6:39 pm] NudeRaider -- VraelVrael shouted: essentially yes - since they have chosen a course of action which has resulted in a scarcity of medical resources, they ought to be the ones to pay for it this is not how it works with healthcare. If we were talking about being disallowed from being at the beach because you leave your garbage their, yeah obviously your bad behavior that affects others justifies the ban. But not when it's literally about lives. Medical aid is to be granted to everyone equally. The only exception from this is triage where the decisions are based on survival chances.[2021-9-02. : 6:11 pm] NudeRaider -- Oh_ManOh_Man shouted: Ppl dont deserve to die just because they're stupid, ignorant, or made a wrong decision qft[2021-9-02. : 4:38 pm] Voyager7456 -- CorboCorbo shouted: You were the chosen one, you were supposed to fight evil, not join it smh hey man you can't just skip to that part you've gotta cut my legs off first[2021-9-02. : 4:34 pm]  Corbo -- You were the chosen one, you were supposed to fight evil, not join it smh[2021-9-02. : 4:33 pm] Corbo -- Why would you want the military budget to increase and create a whole new division to hunt down and kill anti vaxxers???[2021-9-02. : 4:32 pm] Luigi -- I'm sure that in the US the idea of shooting the virus will be motivating.[2021-9-02. : 4:22 pm] MTiger156 -- I'm sure this idea will be more popular that the flamethrower method.[2021-9-02. : 4:20 pm] MTiger156 -- Harnessing UV light to kill virus... I got a great idea just now. Weapon manufacturers should modify their guns with powerful UV laser emitters so that everyone can shoot anti-vaxxers (or the infected) in a fun, non-lethal way  [2021-9-02. : 4:07 pm] Luigi -- For your information, ultraviolet radiation kills the virus. It's used for sterilization for that reason. No need for Ivermectin, HCQ, and a long etc..[2021-9-02. : 3:59 pm] Voyager7456 -- to be clear, I am being facetious here please don't start a 5 page debate about how I want to drone strike UV[2021-9-02. : 3:58 pm] Voyager7456 -- Oh_ManOh_Man shouted: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Now pls tell me why yall dont just gun down anti vaxxers b4 they can spread their plagues to others? finally, a use of that bloated military budget I can get behind[2021-9-02. : 3:50 pm] lil-Inferno -- Oh_ManOh_Man shouted: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Now pls tell me why yall dont just gun down anti vaxxers b4 they can spread their plagues to others? cuz they have all the guns lmao[2021-9-02. : 3:49 pm] Vrael -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: making big tech arbiters of censorship has its own problems was thinking more court ordered cease and desist and less empowering big companies but on the bright side just think how clear and consistent the news would be if amazon just controlled everything? it'd be almost as great as north korea[2021-9-02. : 3:48 pm] Vrael -- Oh_ManOh_Man shouted: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Now pls tell me why yall dont just gun down anti vaxxers b4 they can spread their plagues to others? well, I think they have more guns than the rest of us unfortunately[2021-9-02. : 3:48 pm] jjf28 -- VraelVrael shouted: also, what's AFD? [in the context of the thread] america's frontline doctors[2021-9-02. : 3:47 pm] Oh_Man -- The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Now pls tell me why yall dont just gun down anti vaxxers b4 they can spread their plagues to others? |
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