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[2018-6-04. : 7:28 pm]  Vrael -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Vrael You could say the same with everyday words. Bear, for example. If something difficult occurs, it doesn't mean you are dealing with an animal that's a bear. absolutely. 'bear' isn't a very controversial term though - but the ambiguity could certainly apply if it were used in the wrong place[2018-6-04. : 7:27 pm]  Moose -- As a tool for discussion, "feminism" is already an overloaded enough term to make rational discussion of opposing sides unnecessarily difficult IMO.[2018-6-04. : 7:27 pm] KrayZee -- VraelVrael shouted: KrayZee according to the idea of feminism in your head, sure You could say the same with everyday words. Bear, for example. If something difficult occurs, it doesn't mean you are dealing with an animal that's a bear.[2018-6-04. : 7:27 pm] Vrael -- not trying to say one is better than the other, or that we can't apply them all or only apply some, just that it isn't as simple as cherry picking the one you want and only applying that one (unless that's the very specific context of the conversation)[2018-6-04. : 7:26 pm] Vrael -- note that I'm not making any value statements about the various definitions[2018-6-04. : 7:26 pm] Vrael -- according to the ideas of others, including one of the two merriam-webster definitions, not so[2018-6-04. : 7:25 pm] Moose -- VraelVrael shouted: KrayZee according to the idea of feminism in your head, sure <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[2018-6-04. : 7:25 pm] Vrael -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Vrael You don't have to participate... according to the idea of feminism in your head, sure[2018-6-04. : 7:24 pm] KrayZee -- VraelVrael shouted: for example I may be a feminist because I subscribe to the 'the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes' but also not be a feminist because I refuse to participate in 'organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests' You don't have to participate...[2018-6-04. : 7:24 pm] Vrael -- but saying 'you are a feminist' or 'you are antifa' by default is missing out on some pretty important modern context for those terms[2018-6-04. : 7:23 pm] Vrael -- for example I may be a feminist because I subscribe to the 'the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes' but also not be a feminist because I refuse to participate in 'organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests'[2018-6-04. : 7:22 pm] KrayZee -- The difference between the US and Germany is distinct. After the civil war, the union doesn't have absolute power to change the policies in the south. After World War II, foreign countries remain to occupy both Germanies and ensure they don't have nazis in power.[2018-6-04. : 7:21 pm] Vrael -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Pr0nogo No, that does not correlate. if you don't like fascism, you're antifa by default. If you support gender equality, then you're a feminist by default. Then you mentioned about "bad actors". You could say the same about feminists and antifa. you're applying these terms like dictionary definitions - if you go that route you have to accept that some of the definitions are being applied correctly and some of the definitions are not being applied correctly[2018-6-04. : 7:21 pm] Moose -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Pr0nogo No, that does not correlate. if you don't like fascism, you're antifa by default. If you support gender equality, then you're a feminist by default. Then you mentioned about "bad actors". You could say the same about feminists and antifa. Depends on whose definitions you're using for those terms, IMO.[2018-6-04. : 7:20 pm] Vrael -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Vrael No, no it won't. After World War II and being divided into 2 different countries: West Germany and East Germany and then reunited for so long it had affected their policies. after WWII 'nazism' was broadly accepted as the remains of the third reich and was viewed through the light of the war crimes they perpetrated during the war, today in the U.S. neo-nazis are a fringe group viewed through the lens of social injustice, arresting the two different groups is painting with two very different brushes[2018-6-04. : 7:13 pm] KrayZee -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: "if you don't support/side with antifa, you support/side with their enemy!" as seen here KrayZee No, that does not correlate. if you don't like fascism, you're antifa by default. If you support gender equality, then you're a feminist by default. Then you mentioned about "bad actors". You could say the same about feminists and antifa.[2018-6-04. : 7:10 pm] KrayZee -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: KrayZee the point was that you took an incredibly binary stance of absolutism regarding an issue that has a lot of ambiguity No, I did not.[2018-6-04. : 7:08 pm] KrayZee -- VraelVrael shouted: KrayZee this however, is the worst idea I have heard all week. Not only would such a biased stance fuel the flames of groups like neo-nazis, but arresting them for their views would do nothing to actually solve the ideological problem, and is just a way to leave the problem for future people to deal with at best No, no it won't. After World War II and being divided into 2 different countries: West Germany and East Germany and then reunited for so long it had affected their policies.[2018-6-04. : 6:28 pm]  Pr0nogo -- VraelVrael shouted: sorry guys the rest of your conversation wasn't interesting to me so I cherry picked stuff out of it my bad wasn't much of a conversation imo[2018-6-04. : 6:27 pm] Pr0nogo -- as if antifa didn't have bad actors (a very generous way to describe the various brannches and the headlines they are responsible for)[2018-6-04. : 6:26 pm] Pr0nogo -- "if you don't support/side with antifa, you support/side with their enemy!" as seen here KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: If you are strongly against antifa, then you're telling everyone you're a fascist. [2018-6-04. : 6:26 pm] Pr0nogo -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Pr0nogo No one mentioned the Japanese, and no one mentioned the use of nuclear weapons against the Japanese in this discussion. I only mentioned nuclear weapons because certain video games brought it up and it's quite relevant today. the point was that you took an incredibly binary stance of absolutism regarding an issue that has a lot of ambiguity[2018-6-04. : 6:25 pm] Pr0nogo -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: I didn't say you are. KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: Pr0nogo If I'm talking about nazis who are offended by video games like Wolfenstein, and you decide to defend actual nazis...there's nothing more to say. [2018-6-04. : 6:15 pm] Vrael -- sorry guys the rest of your conversation wasn't interesting to me so I cherry picked stuff out of it my bad[2018-6-04. : 6:09 pm] Vrael -- KrayZeeKrayZee shouted: I'm glad that modern Germany is trying its best to steer away from nazis. They go as far as arresting hateful, racist people. That wouldn't make them hypocrites in the slightest. If only the US would take a strong stance like modern Germany, then no one should have to be worried about white nationalism. this however, is the worst idea I have heard all week. Not only would such a biased stance fuel the flames of groups like neo-nazis, but arresting them for their views would do nothing to actually solve the ideological problem, and is just a way to leave the problem for future people to deal with at best[2018-6-04. : 6:00 pm] Vrael -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: they just encourage people to remain in their bubbles instead of challenging them to sympathize with the human that exists within any bigot "sympathize with the human that exists within any bigot" so pleasantly surprised to see this written, I feel like this idea is completely skipped in so much dialogue[2018-6-04. : 4:49 pm] NudeRaider -- Any XCOM / UFO fans here? https://www.gog.com/game/xenonauts for free[2018-6-04. : 4:47 pm] KrayZee -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: TIL if i oppose the use of nuclear weapons against the japanese i support nazis No one mentioned the Japanese, and no one mentioned the use of nuclear weapons against the Japanese in this discussion. I only mentioned nuclear weapons because certain video games brought it up and it's quite relevant today.[2018-6-04. : 3:16 pm] Pr0nogo -- what do you mean?? he called me a nazi supporter because i said gamergate had bad actors[2018-6-04. : 3:04 pm] Voyager7456 -- JackJack shouted: Antifa aren't antifascist except in name, in practice they're anticonservative and also lawless riotous crazies  [2018-6-04. : 1:33 pm] Biophysicist -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: TIL if i oppose the use of nuclear weapons against the japanese i support nazis Bad day?[2018-6-04. : 1:32 pm] Biophysicist -- Pr0, if you're not willing to engage in a conversation, just disengage.[2018-6-04. : 11:39 am] Jack -- Antifa aren't antifascist except in name, in practice they're anticonservative and also lawless riotous crazies[2018-6-04. : 10:19 am] Lanthanide -- wow, for once a crazy argument / wall of text that wasn't entirely purple[2018-6-04. : 9:32 am] Pr0nogo -- TIL if i oppose the use of nuclear weapons against the japanese i support nazis[2018-6-04. : 8:45 am] KrayZee -- I don't really read video game articles or reviews that much. The fact you had to put effort in order to justify your beliefs is amusing.[2018-6-04. : 8:39 am] KrayZee -- I'm glad that modern Germany is trying its best to steer away from nazis. They go as far as arresting hateful, racist people. That wouldn't make them hypocrites in the slightest. If only the US would take a strong stance like modern Germany, then no one should have to be worried about white nationalism.[2018-6-04. : 8:26 am] KrayZee -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: did it have bad actors who harassed people? yeah probably, literally every group movement has bad actors If I'm talking about nazis who are offended by video games like Wolfenstein, and you decide to defend actual nazis...there's nothing more to say.[2018-6-04. : 8:09 am] KrayZee -- If you are strongly against antifa, then you're telling everyone you're a fascist.[2018-6-04. : 8:08 am] KrayZee -- I don't even need to explain antifa... but now I have to. Antifa has been a thing since the 1920s. To make it simple, it's just opposition to fascism. Don't make the word more complicated than it should be. If you oppose fascism, then you're antifa.[2018-6-04. : 8:03 am] KrayZee -- Right. Good thing I don't deal with trolls. As for pepe, I'm aware that the creator of pepe does not like how pepe is now portrayed. In fact, the creator is suing InfoWars on that.[2018-6-04. : 8:00 am] Pr0nogo -- what's good for the goose has to be good for the gander imo, if people like the writers at kotaku consistently vilified both gamergate and femfreq for bad actors among them they would be much more respectable[2018-6-04. : 7:59 am] Pr0nogo -- doesn't excuse the behavior but few among us as a culture throw the baby out with the bathwater with things like antifa, censorian actors on social media, etc, so why is this any different[2018-6-04. : 7:58 am] Pr0nogo -- did it have bad actors who harassed people? yeah probably, literally every group movement has bad actors[2018-6-04. : 7:57 am] Pr0nogo -- as far as gamergate is concerned, it wasn't nearly as coordinated as most media sources i've seen paint it, was looked into by the fbi specifically and found to not be a credible threat to anyone, was by and large concerned with journalistic integrity and accountability in the games journalism space, and was vilified by games journalists[2018-6-04. : 7:56 am] Pr0nogo -- with that exception everything in the space has come from left-of-center sources and has been entirely laughable in both its message and its execution, and has hurt the business and entertainment side of gaming/esports[2018-6-04. : 7:55 am] Pr0nogo -- we also had, as you pointed out, the school shootings debacle which seemed to transcend partisan politics[2018-6-04. : 7:54 am] Pr0nogo -- in 2017-18, we had: bully hunters, gamergate redux: incel edition, gamergate redux: women are oppressed in esports edition, overwatch: trihard mountain, overwatch: FU btw, overwatch: trap is banned from twitch chat, overwatch: don't post pepe, overwatch: ban everyone with trump in their username[2018-6-04. : 7:51 am] Pr0nogo -- it's almost like if you don't define the context of the topic about which you wish to discuss, you'll be completely incoherent[2018-6-04. : 7:49 am] KrayZee -- I have to be specific again, don't I? I'm talking about things that happened in 2017 and 2018.[2018-6-04. : 7:48 am] KrayZee -- The only thing I could think of are politicians blaming video games on school shootings.[2018-6-04. : 7:48 am] KrayZee -- I shouldn't have to be so specific to explain this. Who would go to a news article discussing about politics that has nothing to do with video games, mention video games?[2018-6-04. : 7:46 am] KrayZee -- And as for news articles... I'm not even referring to political articles. I'm referring to video game articles.[2018-6-04. : 7:45 am] KrayZee -- I don't name call other people. The only name call is the word demagogue on one specific person.[2018-6-04. : 7:44 am] Pr0nogo -- all i see is people calling each other names regardless of affiliation[2018-6-04. : 7:44 am] Pr0nogo -- i don't read news articles and stay pretty far away from politics unless it has some clear link to something I'm interested in |
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