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[2019-1-29. : 7:53 am]  Voyager7456 -- Substantial gameplay changes while sticking to the core RTS formula are am even longer list[2019-1-29. : 7:52 am] Voyager7456 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: but feel free to point me to mods that actually substantially change the game play Ad Astras, Temptation, Battlefield Tarsonis, Lunacy Unbound, HunterCraft, Armageddon Onslaught[2019-1-29. : 7:47 am] Voyager7456 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: I'm willing to bet the game play being mafia-esque (etc.) was triggered (mapping), and at its core would be the same if stripped of all its mod components. You'd lose that bet[2019-1-29. : 7:47 am] Voyager7456 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Voyager7456 please, be precise "can, but not as much as modding. And often doesn't" Show me the mod that made the rts that sc is, into a tower def. Might exist. What about moba? What about platformer? That's all done via mapping. You *can* do all those things via modding, and with better results. But you shouldn't, and most people recognize that.[2019-1-29. : 7:46 am] NudeRaider -- but feel free to point me to mods that actually substantially change the game play[2019-1-29. : 7:46 am] NudeRaider -- I'm willing to bet the game play being mafia-esque (etc.) was triggered (mapping), and at its core would be the same if stripped of all its mod components.[2019-1-29. : 7:44 am] Voyager7456 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Voyager7456 please, be precise "can, but not as much as modding. And often doesn't" Show me the mod that made the rts that sc is, into a tower def. Might exist. What about moba? What about platformer? That's all done via mapping. I've played Mafia-esque mods, MOBA-esque mods, 4X mods, etc. Not that I think you should stray too far from RTS gameplay IMO because nearly every map that tries to do so ends up being pretty crappy[2019-1-29. : 7:42 am] NudeRaider -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: NudeRaider Not that audience size matters in the slightest, but you're fooling yourself if you think the huge RPG maps SEN likes to pump out get any more play what's delusional about wanting to play my map but can't because it's a multiplayer map and I lack a meeting place where players are always readily available (1000s+ on net vs. a couple on discord)?[2019-1-29. : 7:40 am] NudeRaider -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: "Modding can't contribute to new gameplay" that's ridiculous please, be precise "can, but not as much as modding. And often doesn't" Show me the mod that made the rts that sc is, into a tower def. Might exist. What about moba? What about platformer? That's all done via mapping.[2019-1-29. : 7:38 am] Voyager7456 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: NudeRaider Or more seriously put: You make a mod, what do you think how many people outside of SEN are gonna play it? How many on SEN? Then compare to sunked D, Desert Strike and whatever's currently the latest trend? Not that audience size matters in the slightest, but you're fooling yourself if you think the huge RPG maps SEN likes to pump out get any more play[2019-1-29. : 7:36 am] Voyager7456 -- "Mods are just gimmicky extras that don't contribute to a project" Many mods are projects in their own right[2019-1-29. : 7:30 am] Voyager7456 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: All that said, I still recognize mods as having greater potential especially on the arts/graphics department. The potential to "wow" the player. But at the same time you need mapping to create good game play. I feel like modding can't contribute much in that regard. Yes, weapons and stuff can be more diverse, but will it actually benefit gameplay? Rarely. NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: It's easy as a modder to focus too much on graphical assets and stuff, and still remember to make good game play mechanics and/or a fun and engaging story. Actually MANY MANY mods I've played fall short in that regard. One of the few exceptions is the Visions of the Future campaign set. And a while ago I kind of forgot what it was. I think by Pronogo where you played Terrans and Zerg during Zerg invasion of Aiur. It stuck close to standard gameplay but had excellent mission design. NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: But in the end - in my opinion - mods are just gimmicky extras that can add to a project, but rarely do. What matters is core gamplay, defined by mapping. And in case of multi player maps, a player base is quite important, which is infinitely more difficult to get with mods. So imo modding is fine if you stick to well made single player or coop (with 1 friend). I don't think you know what you're talking about[2019-1-29. : 7:29 am] NudeRaider -- But in the end - in my opinion - mods are just gimmicky extras that can add to a project, but rarely do. What matters is core gamplay, defined by mapping. And in case of multi player maps, a player base is quite important, which is infinitely more difficult to get with mods. So imo modding is fine if you stick to well made single player or coop (with 1 friend).[2019-1-29. : 7:22 am] NudeRaider -- It's easy as a modder to focus too much on graphical assets and stuff, and still remember to make good game play mechanics and/or a fun and engaging story. Actually MANY MANY mods I've played fall short in that regard. One of the few exceptions is the Visions of the Future campaign set. And a while ago I kind of forgot what it was. I think by Pronogo where you played Terrans and Zerg during Zerg invasion of Aiur. It stuck close to standard gameplay but had excellent mission design.[2019-1-29. : 7:15 am] NudeRaider -- All that said, I still recognize mods as having greater potential especially on the arts/graphics department. The potential to "wow" the player. But at the same time you need mapping to create good game play. I feel like modding can't contribute much in that regard. Yes, weapons and stuff can be more diverse, but will it actually benefit gameplay? Rarely.[2019-1-29. : 7:11 am] NudeRaider -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Pr0nogo that is like your opinion man... The way I see it modding is limiting your audience to the point where I could make the map for myself only. Or more seriously put: You make a mod, what do you think how many people outside of SEN are gonna play it? How many on SEN? Then compare to sunked D, Desert Strike and whatever's currently the latest trend?[2019-1-29. : 7:08 am] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: I'm stating that limiting yourself to mapping is idiotic and hobbyists are not professional by definition nice troll attempt. When we use professional in a mapping context nobody tries to imply that we're earning money with it. We compare the quality and use of techniques as being so expertly that it might as well be coming from a professional (which we all know doesn't exist). So please stop a) insulting us "idiotic" b) yourself "intentionally misinterpreting established terms" in an attempt to sound more convincing. How about using some actual on topic arguments? Or are there none?[2019-1-29. : 6:53 am] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: I'm stating that limiting yourself to mapping is idiotic and hobbyists are not professional by definition that is like your opinion man... The way I see it modding is limiting your audience to the point where I could make the map for myself only.[2019-1-29. : 6:34 am] Voyager7456 -- Oh_ManOh_Man shouted: Modding is shite mapping for life. possibly the dumbest thing I've read[2019-1-29. : 5:57 am] Wormer -- MTiger156MTiger156 shouted: I wanna take a break from my masterpiece map for a while, but not necessarily from mapping. Who wants me to make "Mafia City" for the sake of memes, but still a semi-professional map? What's that epic map of yours?[2019-1-29. : 5:02 am]  Pr0nogo -- I'm stating that limiting yourself to mapping is idiotic and hobbyists are not professional by definition[2019-1-29. : 3:47 am] MTiger156 -- I wanna take a break from my masterpiece map for a while, but not necessarily from mapping. Who wants me to make "Mafia City" for the sake of memes, but still a semi-professional map?[2019-1-28. : 12:29 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- WormerWormer shouted: in other news, eveyone heared of AlphaStar already? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs) Just what they showed at blizzcon and what the guy from alphago talked about between games during the finals, haven't seen the up to date stuff[2019-1-28. : 11:00 am] Wormer -- in other news, eveyone heared of AlphaStar already? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs)[2019-1-28. : 10:48 am] Wormer -- trgktrgk shouted: Wormer constant parts are 4 bytes (01 00 04 00), so they don't matter that much Yeah I meant something else here. The problem with multiple sections that you need to switch that stuff before each display text, so my idea was to keep "freqently" used messages in a "constant" part of the STR section that is getting repeated and all other messages in "variable" part[2019-1-28. : 8:53 am] trgk -- WormerWormer shouted: the constant part have to be repeated each time constant parts are 4 bytes (01 00 04 00), so they don't matter that much[2019-1-27. : 9:21 pm] Wormer -- gladly STR is quite large to not bother about "frames" switching all the time[2019-1-27. : 9:19 pm] Wormer -- looks like it, and maybe some messages that are frequently repeated but that is map-specific[2019-1-27. : 9:17 pm] jjf28 -- I guess you can edit the stat table for all unit names... would make static portion very very small[2019-1-27. : 9:17 pm] Wormer -- strings from "different" variable parts cannon't be used altogether, a subsystem for switching STR "frames" needed[2019-1-27. : 9:15 pm] Wormer -- Yeah, STR divides into 2 parts: the constant one and the variable one[2019-1-27. : 9:14 pm] jjf28 -- I suppose, but how many copies of the string section is it feasible for you to keep?[2019-1-27. : 8:53 pm] Wormer -- And also what is the difference between "simple data" and "backed by code". Is it like "simple data" is never got overwritten by code?[2019-1-27. : 8:50 pm] Wormer -- Now I wonder what happens when there is a trigger in player's list that doesn't belong to that player[2019-1-27. : 8:48 pm] Wormer -- I'm trying hard to comprehend that stuff too, didn't get to strings yet but I guess it's about gameText at 0x00640B60 -- 13 arrays of 218 chars |
