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[2017-5-08. : 4:49 am]  O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- ZoanZoan shouted: Veta Crazy. I never knew about it until this new observer mode, which has cause the bug in my map repeatedly. it could just make it more likely to occur, since every image is visible all the time (assuming that's how observer mode works), but it's been a problem for maps for a long time[2017-5-08. : 4:27 am] Tassaar930 -- VetaVeta shouted: Zoan It has existed since the inception of StarCraft, they knowingly baked desynch into the game Yeah, that's pretty wild. How come it seems to have happened so much more with the advent of 1.18 though; is something that I don't get[2017-5-08. : 3:57 am]  Zoan -- VetaVeta shouted: Zoan It has existed since the inception of StarCraft, they knowingly baked desynch into the game Crazy. I never knew about it until this new observer mode, which has cause the bug in my map repeatedly.[2017-5-08. : 3:49 am] Veta -- ZoanZoan shouted: Yea that's awesome to hear about a new bug explained in such a clear way. Has this bug existed this entire time (even on 1.16)? It has existed since the inception of StarCraft, they knowingly baked desynch into the game[2017-5-08. : 3:44 am] Pauper -- Question, I need to stop a trigger at a location when a Zergling is burrowed. How would I do that? Location properties don't seem to do the trick.[2017-5-08. : 3:32 am] Zoan -- Yea that's awesome to hear about a new bug explained in such a clear way. Has this bug existed this entire time (even on 1.16)?[2017-5-08. : 3:23 am] Veta -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: I'm not familiar with this part of the internals. But it sounds like FoW images are the only ones not synced, and occasionally flashing vision might be enough to bring them in line. Intuitively this should be sufficient, but desync FOW can happen very quickly, even when you only have two opposing teams sharing vision. If you are attacked by a player it will reveal the attacking unit and potentially static buildings around it that your allies will not see. If you are at the map image limit and a unit spawns between your FOW refresh and this FOW desync, you will drop. In practice it is safest to avoid FOW altogether and reveal the map. FOW will double count sprites, quickly reaching the map image limit.[2017-5-08. : 3:19 am] Veta -- If there is a part of your map that cannot be explored (and no comsat) and you have 500 unit slots to spare at game start. You can set all players' FOW sprites to the same 500 units at game start, then remove those units, and prevent FOW from ever adding a new sprite. In practice imagine a RISK map where each time another player conquers a region, you can no longer see it on your minimap or FOW. The FOW will never desynchronize as long as players don't explore and erase the original 500 FOW sprites.[2017-5-08. : 3:17 am] Veta -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Veta Excellent research. Does this imply that if the entire map were revealed to all players at all times that this desync would not happen? If so, does that further imply that if vision were shared between all players at all times that this desync would not happen? Yes, correct. If there is no FOW, then there is no desynchronization. You can reveal the entire map or have all players share vision. Image limit may still be reached and weird things will happen, like disappearing shadows, but this won't result in desync. I must credit Neiv for the discovery, I only tried to summarize.[2017-5-08. : 2:21 am]  Voyager7456 -- I'm not familiar with this part of the internals. But it sounds like FoW images are the only ones not synced, and occasionally flashing vision might be enough to bring them in line.[2017-5-08. : 2:19 am] Voyager7456 -- I wonder though - if you occasionally quickly revealed the entire map and then took away vision, would it solve that problem?[2017-5-08. : 2:17 am] Voyager7456 -- I assume so, because the image usage would be the same for all players.[2017-5-08. : 2:07 am] Moose -- VetaVeta shouted: Trying to get blizzard's attention, if you have an account please comment on this bug report: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20754367303 Excellent research. Does this imply that if the entire map were revealed to all players at all times that this desync would not happen? If so, does that further imply that if vision were shared between all players at all times that this desync would not happen?[2017-5-08. : 2:01 am] Moose -- Did another folder ... sent 12296 bytes, received 457780768 bytes, 54887.96 bytes/sec, total size is 472647563 speedup is 1.03, real 139m0.336s[2017-5-08. : 12:38 am] Veta -- Trying to get blizzard's attention, if you have an account please comment on this bug report: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20754367303[2017-5-07. : 11:47 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Correct. (Assuming nothing has messed with the Anywhere location, which is a thing that can happen) Thank you sir[2017-5-07. : 11:40 pm] Moose -- Correct. (Assuming nothing has messed with the Anywhere location, which is a thing that can happen)[2017-5-07. : 11:36 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- Here's a question though, if you have a location that is always centering on a thing, but then that thing isn't there, where does the location go?[2017-5-07. : 11:34 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- Wait actually I figured it out, just an old trigger that I had was messing it up[2017-5-07. : 11:29 pm] Moose -- Hm, about 30 minutes for 13604 files totaling 159M. (I should have actually timed this) Only need to do 13GB, should be done quick LMAO[2017-5-07. : 11:24 pm] Voyager7456 -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Just noting that if the site is slow(er than usual), there's actually a good reason this time, rsync is starting to push user uploaded files to the new server. Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Well, just doing the avatars now to see how it goes. Then I'll have some stats and an idea of how long the bigger stuff (attachments, DLDB) will take. sweet[2017-5-07. : 11:23 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- theskinsurftheskinsurf shouted: you use hypertrigger and do "kill score > 1", which any kill will be, and turn that into a token a token such as "+1 gas", and then when you get "20 gas", create the ACTUAL token we were going for in the first place[2017-5-07. : 11:22 pm] Dem0n -- you could do if kill score is at least 1, add 1 death of some unit, and then when the player has 20 deaths of that unit, add 1 ore and set the deaths to 0[2017-5-07. : 11:22 pm] theskinsurf -- you use hypertrigger and do "kill score > 1", which any kill will be, and turn that into a token[2017-5-07. : 11:22 pm] theskinsurf -- so, you either manipulate that, with highest values descending for precision, OR[2017-5-07. : 11:21 pm] theskinsurf -- each unit has a hardcoded kill score. lings are 50, hydras 350 i think, etc etc.[2017-5-07. : 11:19 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- So it would be "current player kill score is at least 20", "create token", "set kill score to 0 for current player", "preserve trigger" ?[2017-5-07. : 11:19 pm] theskinsurf -- but kills cant be manipulated, so you need to work with kill score[2017-5-07. : 11:18 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- So I have hypertriggers. I'm trying to do kills >=20, add one kill token[2017-5-07. : 11:17 pm] theskinsurf -- dem0n's would work if, kills > 1, add kill token, set kills 0, 20 kill tokens -> action, etc etc[2017-5-07. : 11:15 pm] Dem0n -- if there aren't like buildings or stuff that you don't want to count towards those 20 kills, just have the condition be "current player kill score is at least 1", then make the action "add 20 ore, set kill score to 0, preserve trigger"[2017-5-07. : 11:13 pm] Moose -- You could manipulate a perfect kills-to-cash system into doing that. If multi-kills are infrequent (at hyper trigger detection speed), a kill score-based system would work.[2017-5-07. : 11:10 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- So is there any way to make it so that every time "current player" gets 20 kills they get $1? Or do you literally have to make out the triggers for 20 kills, 40 kills, 60 kills, etc.?[2017-5-07. : 11:04 pm] Moose -- Well, just doing the avatars now to see how it goes. Then I'll have some stats and an idea of how long the bigger stuff (attachments, DLDB) will take.[2017-5-07. : 10:59 pm] Moose -- Just noting that if the site is slow(er than usual), there's actually a good reason this time, rsync is starting to push user uploaded files to the new server.[2017-5-07. : 9:35 pm] jjf28 -- start locations aren't spawned when the map loads - ie they don't take up any indexes[2017-5-07. : 9:34 pm] jjf28 -- all times assume you're on fastest speed https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dBjkoyY2FLpavQ2wVz0tVkgPjWjpsusMA_MjCD1FH5o/edit#gid=287149626[2017-5-07. : 9:33 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- Hey so does remove [any unit] also remove a players start location? I messed something up somehow where it's like the computer players aren't loading[2017-5-07. : 8:56 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- Ok thank you, I was trying to use the search but it took like 5 minutes to load haha[2017-5-07. : 8:42 pm] m.0.n.3.y -- Hey another question, does 1 death counter = 1 millisecond? so 1000 value of a death counter is one second?[2017-5-07. : 7:38 pm] Veta -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: I can't increase sprite/image limit in a map, I was saying blizzard could do that; what I can do in CHKD is count images Hopefully they do. It would be awesome to see a tool like this in CHKD, this would help with lowering the count. This desync is super common in the diplo/conquest/war map community |
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