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[2017-7-14. : 10:54 pm]  Ashamed -- Which i suppose the data editor is the bigger portion of the "MOD" aspect of sc2[2017-7-14. : 10:54 pm]  IskatuMesk -- I either worked directly with galaxy (modding the melee AI and such) or with data or graphics[2017-7-14. : 10:54 pm] Pr0nogo -- i have to sit here for over 2 minutes to open maps if i've done even a little bit of terraining[2017-7-14. : 10:54 pm] IskatuMesk -- my work was very largely outside of triggers though, so I never really got to use them too much[2017-7-14. : 10:53 pm] IskatuMesk -- Triggers are just triggers though, nothing necessarily complex about those, I found them easy to get into (due to wc3 experience)[2017-7-14. : 10:53 pm] Pr0nogo -- i think most of its shortcomings would be easier to stomach if the interface didn't rebuild itself with every mouse click[2017-7-14. : 10:53 pm] Ashamed -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: The actor and mover systems are asynchronus which for anyone working up from other engines is a huge departure from the norm, and as a result a lot of their functionality is really weird and unexpected I agrree the data editor sucked ha[2017-7-14. : 10:53 pm] IskatuMesk -- The actor and mover systems are asynchronus which for anyone working up from other engines is a huge departure from the norm, and as a result a lot of their functionality is really weird and unexpected[2017-7-14. : 10:52 pm] IskatuMesk -- Really basic stuff like "Name" and "Description" are on entirely opposite sides of the list which is just a pain in the ass for someone looking to do stuff concisely[2017-7-14. : 10:51 pm] IskatuMesk -- Like, I can use sc2's editor because while I'm not a programmer I have a lot of experience with systems that were designed like that. The problem with sc2's editor and what makes it so difficult for the average person to learn is the fact the data is not at all sorted whatsoever, and a lot of "hidden" behavior like id's getting associated across xml files is not very obvious without really getting into it which, when coupled with things like the duplication function not carrying over those ids, causes people endless headaches[2017-7-14. : 10:51 pm] Ashamed -- When I first looked at sc2 I can agree I thought it was a mess... but It was only a matter of time before I understood it and could do some pretty cool stuff especially for a rts.[2017-7-14. : 10:49 pm] Ashamed -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: Tools are not typically designed for people like you, you usually reverse engineer and develop your own tools anywyas., I can agree with this consensus ha[2017-7-14. : 10:49 pm] IskatuMesk -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: IskatuMesk Hey, stop talking about SEN alr-... oh. lmao[2017-7-14. : 10:48 pm] Ashamed -- I have more fun doing stuff in starcraft though  I feel more accomplished when I get something done since the engine is much older ha.[2017-7-14. : 10:48 pm] IskatuMesk -- Tools are not typically designed for people like you, you usually reverse engineer and develop your own tools anywyas.,[2017-7-14. : 10:48 pm] IskatuMesk -- I'm telling you from experience what is easier to learn. Most programmers find most tools garbage, first or third party, doesn't really matter.[2017-7-14. : 10:47 pm] Ashamed -- I am telling you I found it easier... There isn't an aurgument lol[2017-7-14. : 10:47 pm]  Moose -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: It doesn't act like anything. It's a sluggish, disorganized pile of undocumented trash that was slapped together last minute for a bulletpoint. Sc2's data was all done through XML by hand. Hey, stop talking about SEN alr-... oh.[2017-7-14. : 10:46 pm] Ashamed -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: I made custom content in that game from the first week of beta until last year, believe me, I know all about it. I was one of the team members of Starcrafts and I did technical work for Pirate who won ROTC first place I too have been using it since beta.. I remeber even working on getting early access too it in the beta ha[2017-7-14. : 10:46 pm] IskatuMesk -- That BW's tools are third party is a huge advantage to BW because they have seen updates and support over the years, whereas sc2 has not.[2017-7-14. : 10:46 pm] IskatuMesk -- It doesn't act like anything. It's a sluggish, disorganized pile of undocumented trash that was slapped together last minute for a bulletpoint. Sc2's data was all done through XML by hand.[2017-7-14. : 10:45 pm] Ashamed -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: Sc2's first party tool is literally garbage. It still acts more like an editor. I dont think the galaxy editor is awesome by any means.. but as a programer I can fully understand it.. Thus its eaiser ha[2017-7-14. : 10:45 pm] IskatuMesk -- I made custom content in that game from the first week of beta until last year, believe me, I know all about it. I was one of the team members of Starcrafts and I did technical work for Pirate who won ROTC first place[2017-7-14. : 10:44 pm] Pr0nogo -- 3rd party tools that are easier to use than the galaxy editor? sign me up[2017-7-14. : 10:44 pm] Ashamed -- Modding in sc I dont see how you can say is easier either.. All requires 3rd party tools and tutorials via the internet[2017-7-14. : 10:44 pm] Pr0nogo -- unfortunately modding is actually not possible in sc2 without losing your bnet account sooo[2017-7-14. : 10:43 pm] Ashamed -- I am a programmer though.. So sc2 editor was much easier for me to understand.[2017-7-14. : 10:43 pm] IskatuMesk -- I'm talking about modding, not triggers. You're right that sc2 triggers are "easy", except that many basic functions require an exorbitant amount of triggering to accomplish[2017-7-14. : 10:43 pm] Ashamed -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: there's no contest in terms of user friendliness, either - layouts aside, the instant responsiveness of BW tools always lends to a better learning experience than the 5-30 second load times associated with the most basic of sc2 editor functions I use awesome computers so delays are much smaller ha. I am just speaking out of personal experience... Sc basic trigger of course is easier.. but the second you try to go around this it becomes much harder with little to know help within the editor... sc2 I had 3rd person/rpg/random battles/etc within a week of its release.. Some of these things took me months to create in the starcraft engine.[2017-7-14. : 10:41 pm] IskatuMesk -- there's no contest in terms of user friendliness, either - layouts aside, the instant responsiveness of BW tools always lends to a better learning experience than the 5-30 second load times associated with the most basic of sc2 editor functions[2017-7-14. : 10:40 pm] IskatuMesk -- Sc2 is definitely a lot more difficult because it is intentionally designed to be restrictive and frustrating, BW is only so by extent of its origin design[2017-7-14. : 10:39 pm] Ashamed -- IskatuMeskIskatuMesk shouted: Sc is actually one of the easiest games to mods Meh I find sc2 easier since it is more an program editor... but if you are not doing advance stuff in sc its not that bad[2017-7-14. : 10:39 pm] IskatuMesk -- Once you understand the fundamentals of archives like winmpq and such everything becomes extremely simple[2017-7-14. : 10:38 pm] Larwa -- I can do map, triggers, edit units and properties in x-tra but these programs scared me[2017-7-14. : 10:36 pm] Larwa -- I was making before in x-tra editor, I have made some of the tarrain, spawns, layers, locations and triggers something like in most of the rpgs UMS[2017-7-14. : 10:36 pm] IskatuMesk -- basically how I learned all the shit in sc2 everyone was too scared to try to do[2017-7-14. : 10:35 pm] IskatuMesk -- reminds me of all the videos I made for people like Oracle and SgtHK who proceeded to do nothing with them[2017-7-14. : 10:35 pm] Ashamed -- LarwaLarwa shouted: I am kind of person which doesn't understand things "Like this" by reading, I would need someone to tell me step by step what does what and show me with a finger :< Don't want to be incentive or anything, but not everyone can do programing sort of things. If you find yourself really confused go do some basic programming and see if you actually like it. This may help you come back and understand some of the harder stuff. Starcraft also is a bit older so its harder to find help ><[2017-7-14. : 10:34 pm] Pr0nogo -- that way when someone is around to help you know exactly what questions to ask them, and in the meantime you can do the terrain and stuff[2017-7-14. : 10:34 pm] Pr0nogo -- i'd start by just making the terrain and thinking about what you want to implement, writing down your plans[2017-7-14. : 10:32 pm] Larwa -- I think I will be keep looking for someone who's got something like ts3 or discord even skype, I really would like to make some nice RPG UMS, but I just can't understand shit, It's not that I am lazy and I don't want to understand I just can't ...[2017-7-14. : 10:29 pm] Larwa -- I am kind of person which doesn't understand things "Like this" by reading, I would need someone to tell me step by step what does what and show me with a finger :<[2017-7-14. : 10:28 pm] Voyager7456 -- LarwaLarwa shouted: k, I will come back in tomorrow, sorry for problems No problem. Sorry it's a bit confusing without some proper tutorials. I'll write something basic up for you tomorrow.[2017-7-14. : 10:28 pm] Pr0nogo -- modding seems really complicated at first but you'll get it eventually, soon we will have more tutorials as well[2017-7-14. : 10:27 pm] Pr0nogo -- flingy and images are what voyager was referencing here: Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: Here's what you're going to want to do: In flingy.dat, find an entry that you don't care about. Look at the corresponding entry in images.dat to find out what the .grp file name is [2017-7-14. : 10:25 pm] Larwa -- Fuck me, in DatEdit there are so many tabs, sound, portraits, images, spirites, weapons, basic, advanced, sound and other I am already confused[2017-7-14. : 10:25 pm] Voyager7456 -- LarwaLarwa shouted: [207] Left Pit Door, I can change things like this into anything right? Yeah.[2017-7-14. : 10:25 pm] Voyager7456 -- You can, but Mod Night will be starting soon and then I will be busy. But I can answer you later.[2017-7-14. : 10:24 pm] Larwa -- [207] Left Pit Door, I can change things like this into anything right?[2017-7-14. : 10:23 pm] Larwa -- ok I have DatEdit I will have look through, if I will have any troubles can I ask you for help? |
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