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[2019-6-19. : 7:52 pm]  NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: 3rd or 4th time now you always said something like "if you they want to sabotaging your project's caliber" or "objectively inferior" but only recently admitted that there are other valid metrics Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: irrespective of that, a developer may not intend to produce a high quality product, which is fine, but that has nothing to do with my review (which I missed because couldn't keep up with all the reading and typing) and a few other times after that.[2019-6-19. : 7:52 pm]  Pr0nogo -- anyway, you mentioned earlier diversity is our strength, and now this wall is orange AND blue, so take that voy[2019-6-19. : 7:50 pm] Pr0nogo -- not sure how to word this without unintentionally coming across as an asshole (as opposed to when I do that intentionally) but it feels like a lot of the misconceptions here are about really low level things, as if you expect that other people don't understand basic human interaction, or the construction of an opinion, etc[2019-6-19. : 7:48 pm] Pr0nogo -- along with stating my position that you should share a priority for quality, which is done under the assumption that people understand it's my position, and not... whatever else it would be? legislature? LMAO[2019-6-19. : 7:48 pm] Pr0nogo -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: in this case quality is my priority, so... yeah, you should share that LMAO I said that yesterday[2019-6-19. : 7:46 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: and that people need not listen if their priorities are different eureka.[2019-6-19. : 7:46 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: you're interpreting my position as being personal to an individual, which it isn't as what?[2019-6-19. : 7:46 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: I'm talking about what a dev should do if they want a quality product because you say quality is important. Don't you see your implicit logic?[2019-6-19. : 7:45 pm] Pr0nogo -- you're interpreting my position as being personal to an individual, which it isn't[2019-6-19. : 7:45 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: yeah you're taking it too personally definitely not.  For me there is no modders VERSUS mappers. there's only modders AND mappers. We could all be a happy family  [2019-6-19. : 7:45 pm] Pr0nogo -- also I don't think mappers are thinking accessibility first, with a playerbase like sc's that's a really flimsy excuse. I think they're thinking of ease of creation before anything[2019-6-19. : 7:44 pm] Pr0nogo -- I'm talking about what a dev should do if they want a quality product[2019-6-19. : 7:43 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: NudeRaider I also disagree with this. A project can be reviewed objectively (because you can break down techniques), and part of that is reverse engineering developer intent, e.g. if the developer intended for a dog unit to attack the player but they used a zergling instead of a custom art asset, that's objectively inferior execution don't think about the project. Think about the dogma. NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: - You: quality trumps all NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: - Mappers: Accessibility trumps all I don't think you or anyone gets to decide for me which is more important for me.[2019-6-19. : 7:43 pm] Pr0nogo -- but what Brusilov wants actually is only possible with modding, and I'd argue it's only possible with 1.16.1 modding[2019-6-19. : 7:41 pm] NudeRaider -- I was only seconding demons comment. Then the matter of what you wrote in that topic was closed for me. Then you said "but it's only possible with modding" - I disagreed. Lastly in your reply to demon you mentioned that everyone should be modding. - I explained why I think everyone should do what they like best. ANd that last part was what I stuck to for the rest of the convo.[2019-6-19. : 7:40 pm] Pr0nogo -- in fact I pretty much always concede that people don't take content creation as seriously as I do, but the people who do will come away from my reviews and commentary more educated (at least that's the idea behind their existence)[2019-6-19. : 7:40 pm] Pr0nogo -- irrespective of that, a developer may not intend to produce a high quality product, which is fine, but that has nothing to do with my review[2019-6-19. : 7:39 pm] Pr0nogo -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Who can rule a final judgement on who is "right"? Answer: Nobody. There is no judgement needed. Everyone has their own priorities. I also disagree with this. A project can be reviewed objectively (because you can break down techniques), and part of that is reverse engineering developer intent, e.g. if the developer intended for a dog unit to attack the player but they used a zergling instead of a custom art asset, that's objectively inferior execution[2019-6-19. : 7:38 pm] Pr0nogo -- if you wanted to attack the principle of whether or not you care about quality despite sabotaging your project's caliber that's different, but hopefully I cleared everything up[2019-6-19. : 7:37 pm] Pr0nogo -- the tism tangent made it seem like you focused on that (ironic) instead of what I was saying[2019-6-19. : 7:37 pm] Pr0nogo -- yes it seemed like you were still arguing even though I already expressed that I understood[2019-6-19. : 7:37 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: I didn't think there was further confusion on that fact but this was what I was saying all along. So in the end I just did a bad job of conveying what was my point?[2019-6-19. : 7:34 pm] Pr0nogo -- I'm sympathetic to people who put in the effort and complain about it, but if you just complain and don't do any work, why would I be sympathetic[2019-6-19. : 7:34 pm] Voyager7456 -- Voyager7456Voyager7456 shouted: when I log on to SEN and see a wall of blue text I know I'm in for a good time *blue or orange[2019-6-19. : 7:33 pm] Pr0nogo -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: To appreciate that you gonna have to accept that even over things that seem completely objective to you people are "right" when they have a different view. I understand this fine[2019-6-19. : 7:31 pm] NudeRaider -- Who can rule a final judgement on who is "right"? Answer: Nobody. There is no judgement needed. Everyone has their own priorities.[2019-6-19. : 7:30 pm] NudeRaider -- I'll not say "me" here, because I just play devil's advocate for all mappers.[2019-6-19. : 7:30 pm] NudeRaider -- Take our current example of whether "everyone should be modding": I see (at least) 2 positions here:[2019-6-19. : 7:29 pm] NudeRaider -- To appreciate that you gonna have to accept that even over things that seem completely objective to you people are "right" when they have a different view.[2019-6-19. : 7:28 pm] NudeRaider -- "Every person has different priorities." is probably the most concise I'll get.[2019-6-19. : 7:28 pm] NudeRaider -- And yeah I notice your confusion over my explanations. I just can't quite grasp where it stems from, so I'll try to simplify and see where it gets us.[2019-6-19. : 7:27 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: i don't even know what you're talking about tbh, just sounds like unnecessary apologism no, not at all apologetic. Explaining that there are differences, is not the same as defending one of the other position.[2019-6-19. : 6:56 pm] Pr0nogo -- nobody else talks, and when they do they belittle you for having the tiz[2019-6-19. : 6:55 pm] Voyager7456 -- when I log on to SEN and see a wall of blue text I know I'm in for a good time[2019-6-19. : 6:27 pm] Pr0nogo -- maybe it's me failing to understand but a lot of your points come from left field and don't help further your argument or answer any points raised by mine, imo. Makes it hard to get invested in discourse[2019-6-19. : 6:25 pm] Pr0nogo -- and since it's not easy to communicate this over text, I'm not trying to own you or w/e, I do enjoy having conversations about this kind of thing, but most of my conversations with you specifically have been sabotaged by some really weird misconceptions (e.g. the "u dislike everything" bit when we last spoke)[2019-6-19. : 6:23 pm] Pr0nogo -- you can boil gamedev down to objective elements regarding technique so it's not an entirely subjective environment to converse in, contrary to your assertion. And I understand people just fine, provided they don't go off on unrelated tangents instead about my mental acuity instead of responding to my actual points[2019-6-19. : 6:19 pm] Pr0nogo -- I told a guy how I'd approach solving his issues, Dem0n complained that one option I outlined involved modding, and somehow you managed to lecture me about the nature of communicating with humans LMAO[2019-6-19. : 6:18 pm] Pr0nogo -- i don't even know what you're talking about tbh, just sounds like unnecessary apologism[2019-6-19. : 6:00 pm] NudeRaider -- and the beauty of it? NOBODY has to change their minds (on opinionated topics - not scientific topics like global warming  ). They are all right. Diversity is good. No 1 true truth necessary.[2019-6-19. : 5:58 pm] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: NudeRaider i am autistic Then you know you can't understand people. So obviously giving advice to someone you don't understand is likely not the best idea. Not that trying to "convert" someone to their ideas would be a good idea for anyone. Best you can do is lay out your reasoning and if you are VERY LUCKY you will meet the odd person that actually cares enough to listen AND to think about your argument. But EVEN THEN this is far from a guarantee that they will change their mind. Everyone has their own set of ideas of values and thus the conclusions will differ wildly.[2019-6-19. : 5:49 pm] NudeRaider -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: NudeRaider I'm pretty sure all extended units and extended players were fixed "fixed"  I'd call it broken [2019-6-19. : 2:05 pm] SiKiN -- We are working on a Marine version next with a Zergling version aswell. not sure about protoss because of the sprite limits[2019-6-19. : 9:36 am] Suicidal Insanity -- They just have a discord for posting even more memes than they post here ;([2019-6-19. : 6:34 am] MasterJohnny -- ZoanZoan shouted: guys im going to China in 2 days Bring dust mask things and a mosquitoes net. If anyone asks nothing happened on June 4 1984.[2019-6-19. : 6:34 am]  O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: FaRTy1billion I'm wondering: Does extended anything (like place extended units for supply) count as euds (i'd guess no)? Do these overflows still work? I'm pretty sure all extended units and extended players were fixed[2019-6-19. : 6:14 am] Pr0nogo -- I mean I get people not wanting to put in the work, it's not easy, but then they'll say as much without people whining in the shoutbox about my posts[2019-6-19. : 6:14 am] Pr0nogo -- in this case quality is my priority, so... yeah, you should share that LMAO[2019-6-19. : 6:13 am] Pr0nogo -- I was just snarking at dem0n with that response anyways, but i don't think you can argue that deliberately handicapping your work within sc's engine means you don't care as much about quality[2019-6-19. : 6:13 am] Pr0nogo -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Pr0nogo still turning a blind eye for the reason map making is more widespread than modding just insults your intelligence. It's an almost autistic view to demand that everyone shares your priorities. i am autistic[2019-6-19. : 5:58 am] NudeRaider -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: Dem0n people should probably stop just making maps still turning a blind eye for the reason map making is more widespread than modding just insults your intelligence. It's an almost autistic view to demand that everyone shares your priorities. |
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