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[2016-7-24. : 11:50 pm]  Sand Wraith -- https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/AdkinsDecl.pdf on informing policy based on understanding instead of ignorance[2016-7-24. : 11:50 pm] Sand Wraith -- Like I said, entirely ignorant.  Just hold on while I bring you up to date on what's going on in 2016 wrt gender.[2016-7-24. : 11:48 pm] Sand Wraith -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: My thesis: I think it's okay to believe what you want about the world. I think society should be accepting of conservative viewpoints about gender identity. I don't think society should be accepting of conservative viewpoints of gender identity because that would be analogous to society accepting that evolution does not exist and that the world was created 5000 years ago. A conservative viewpoint of gender identity is unscientific and incorrect and is what fuels irrational hate and violence, both to others and to oneself, and is also what fuels policy built upon discrimination. Conservative ideas of gender identity are demonstrably harmful and restrict the furthered understanding of the human condition.[2016-7-24. : 11:42 pm] Sand Wraith -- no[2016-7-24. : 11:40 pm] Sand Wraith -- Oh, my apologies. Hello TiKels, I am incredibly sorry we had this misunderstanding. I shall take full blame for this incident. As an expression of my sincerity, I would like to offer you an intimate service that I am certain you will enjoy thoroughly and we will be able to reconcile our differences through a positive experience within which we each share our vulnerabilities with each other and found the basis for a positive and constructive relationship.[2016-7-24. : 11:37 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: I'm sorry senpai, can I lick your cock instead? Can you please be normal?[2016-7-24. : 11:37 pm] Bar Refaeli -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Ratings for the shoutbox never been higher! 10/10 would recommend to a friend![2016-7-24. : 11:36 pm]  Moose -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: Ugh trying to teach you is tiring Are you memeing us?[2016-7-24. : 11:33 pm] Sand Wraith -- I literally tell you why, you ask "why" again, and then you go on a tangent about people accepting others. And later, you claim this conversation has nothing to do with do with medicine ( TiKelsTiKels shouted: This conversation had nothing to do with medicine. If you want to change the conversation by putting an irrelevant thesis ... I'll make mine "Caramel is a delicious snack that should be explored more often in desserts" ).[2016-7-24. : 11:32 pm] Sand Wraith -- So: I say "We should not perform treatments on infants based on an assumption of their gender identity because there is a risk of having to reverse the treatment later". Then you say, "Why? Who says everyone should be liked and thought of equally. Maybe in government or official channels, but why socially should people be forced to act accepting" ( TiKelsTiKels shouted: Sand Wraith w.r.t. your "additionally..." Why? Who says everyone should be liked and thought of equally. Maybe in government or official channels, but why socially should people be forced to act accepting )[2016-7-24. : 11:29 pm] Sand Wraith -- what does "we should not perform treatments on infants on an assumption of their gender identity because there is a risk of having to reverse the treatment later" have anything to do with TiKelsTiKels shouted: And this is what I said in response TiKels TiKels TiKels ?[2016-7-24. : 11:27 pm] TiKels -- Upon inspection, closer to the heart of my statement is TiKelsTiKels shouted: My thesis: I think it's okay to believe what you want about the world. I think society should be accepting of conservative viewpoints about gender identity. TiKelsTiKels shouted: I don't think there is a need to "let someone grow up without gender roles" ... I think gender roles are okay. [2016-7-24. : 11:26 pm] TiKels -- And this is what I said in response TiKelsTiKels shouted: Sand Wraith w.r.t. your "additionally..." Why? Who says everyone should be liked and thought of equally. Maybe in government or official channels, but why socially should people be forced to act accepting TiKelsTiKels shouted: What if someone is a douchebag or an asshole, should I accept them in the same way? TiKelsTiKels shouted: I think people who fight the norms of society should be rejected by it [2016-7-24. : 11:25 pm] Sand Wraith -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: This conversation had nothing to do with medicine. If you want to change the conversation by putting an irrelevant thesis ... I'll make mine "Caramel is a delicious snack that should be explored more often in desserts" this is what I said: Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: summary: gender identity is the best determinant for direction of treatment of people with variable sex characteristics. Additionally, avoid treating infants with treatments that assume its gender (specifically because there is a risk of having to reverse the treatment later). [2016-7-24. : 11:25 pm] Sand Wraith -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Ratings for the shoutbox never been higher! public service[2016-7-24. : 11:24 pm] Sand Wraith -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: let's ruin the fun: if you agree that your theses are not in opposition you're talking at cross purposes I mean, that's why I said " Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: My. fucking. god. "[2016-7-24. : 11:24 pm] Moose -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: let's ruin the fun: if you agree that your theses are not in opposition you're talking at cross purposes No, let's continue to debate caricatures of the other's positions because it's more dramatic[2016-7-24. : 11:23 pm]  jjf28 -- let's ruin the fun: if you agree that your theses are not in opposition you're talking at cross purposes[2016-7-24. : 11:23 pm] Moose -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Are you guys misunderstanding what sort of person I think is a bigot? No, I'm just trolling and barely following the conversation LMAO[2016-7-24. : 11:22 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Are you guys misunderstanding what sort of person I think is a bigot? are you stereotyping bigots? Oh the irony[2016-7-24. : 11:22 pm] Sand Wraith -- Are you guys misunderstanding what sort of person I think is a bigot?[2016-7-24. : 11:22 pm] TiKels -- This conversation had nothing to do with medicine. If you want to change the conversation by putting an irrelevant thesis ... I'll make mine "Caramel is a delicious snack that should be explored more often in desserts"[2016-7-24. : 11:20 pm] Sand Wraith -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: They should discard opinions they formed over decades of experience and like, browse Huffpo more amirite yes, decades of expeirence spouting the same "chop off your cock" bullshit when it comes to trans women, right? like, for decades, there were trans women all around them chopping off their cocks.[2016-7-24. : 11:20 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: summary: gender identity is the best determinant for direction of treatment of people with variable sex characteristics. Additionally, avoid treating infants with treatments that assume its gender (specifically because there is a risk of having to reverse the treatment later). Even though I shouldn't have to explain the conservation to you again, I'll do the research for you because I find your viewpoint fairly disturbing. My response was to your "additionally" statement[2016-7-24. : 11:19 pm] Sand Wraith -- unless you are making the connection that that medical opinion is in fact in direct opposition to "conservative viewpoints about gender identity," which is that it doesn't exist.[2016-7-24. : 11:19 pm] Moose -- They should discard opinions they formed over decades of experience and like, browse Huffpo more amirite[2016-7-24. : 11:19 pm] Sand Wraith -- I don't fucking understand how you went from Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: jjf28 The direction of medical treatment of people should be directed by their gender identity, and in cases wherein the gender identity cannot be confirmed by the patient, a gender identity should not be assumed. to TiKelsTiKels shouted: My thesis: I think it's okay to believe what you want about the world. I think society should be accepting of conservative viewpoints about gender identity. [2016-7-24. : 11:18 pm] Sand Wraith -- You know what I actually really think about bigots? I think they need to learn some shit and not do shitty things. that's all, really.[2016-7-24. : 11:17 pm] jjf28 -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: Also I should mention that I think bigots are lame but I don't think they should be castrated or shunned from society. I'll say it, they should be shunned, chopping off manhood might be a bit severe[2016-7-24. : 11:16 pm] Sand Wraith -- you know what I said? I said, in slightly different words, this: Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: jjf28 The direction of medical treatment of people should be directed by their gender identity, and in cases wherein the gender identity cannot be confirmed by the patient, a gender identity should not be assumed. [2016-7-24. : 11:16 pm] Sand Wraith -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: Also I should mention that I think bigots are lame but I don't think they should be castrated or shunned from society. when did I say that in this shoutbox[2016-7-24. : 11:15 pm] TiKels -- Also I should mention that I think bigots are lame but I don't think they should be castrated or shunned from society.[2016-7-24. : 11:15 pm] jjf28 -- TiKelsTiKels shouted: I don't think there is a need to "let someone grow up without gender roles" ... I think gender roles are okay. Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: My. fucking. god. well sounds like a real point of contention to put case studies behind *ducks out before this doesn't happen*[2016-7-24. : 11:12 pm] TiKels -- I don't think there is a need to "let someone grow up without gender roles" ... I think gender roles are okay.[2016-7-24. : 11:11 pm] TiKels -- My thesis: I think it's okay to believe what you want about the world. I think society should be accepting of conservative viewpoints about gender identity.[2016-7-24. : 11:08 pm] Sand Wraith -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: how bout you both step back and state your thesis' in 3 or less sentances The direction of medical treatment of people should be directed by their gender identity, and in cases wherein the gender identity cannot be confirmed by the patient, a gender identity should not be assumed.[2016-7-24. : 11:08 pm] TiKels -- Dem0nDem0n shouted: theses* LEL jjf28jjf28 shouted: how bout you both step back and state your thesis' in 3 or less sentances thesises[2016-7-24. : 11:07 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: you know what? I don't know what your point is anymore with all of this. Are we still on about "acceptance culture" or how people deserve to suffer? You should probably take some time to think about your beliefs then[2016-7-24. : 11:07 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: TiKels in other words you still have no idea what you're talking about even if in the most abstract and idealistic sense you may be be correct. Except that at that point, we'd be completely divorced from reality. And I can see you trivializing trans people's issues behind your veil of "im so expeirenced, ur so intolerant of peolpe being intolerant to u, why cant u be more tolerant" I never said they didn't suffer (strawman). I said that to say the suffering of one group of people is inherently worse than another is incorrect.[2016-7-24. : 11:06 pm] jjf28 -- how bout you both step back and state your thesis' in 3 or less sentances[2016-7-24. : 11:05 pm] Sand Wraith -- you know what? I don't know what your point is anymore with all of this. Are we still on about "acceptance culture" or how people deserve to suffer?[2016-7-24. : 11:05 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: like, you do realize peolpe are capable of forming expectations on a wide range of observations, right? Yes, thank you for reiterating my point.[2016-7-24. : 11:04 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: [squote=1368982 when the fuck did I say I preach "acceptance of others"? When the fuck did you decide that I preached acceptance of all ideologies? Of all people regardless of how murderous, abusive, or violent they are? You didn't. You preached acceptance of ideologies that you see as superior[2016-7-24. : 11:03 pm] Sand Wraith -- [squote=1368982 when the fuck did I say I preach "acceptance of others"? When the fuck did you decide that I preached acceptance of all ideologies? Of all people regardless of how murderous, abusive, or violent they are?[2016-7-24. : 11:03 pm] TiKels -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: TiKels yes, let me tolerate people murdering me, lynching me, assaulting me, harassing me Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: especially if everyone around them is regularly well fed Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: like, you do realize peolpe are capable of forming expectations on a wide range of observations, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man |
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