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[2016-11-10. : 7:57 am]  CecilSunkure -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: and a racist action would be creating a programme that encourages outreach to the viet community because it targets viet people!! Not if those viet people are collectively poor, and they need representation because they are economically disadvantaged due to having A) lost a war and B) have a hard time learning english as a whole[2016-11-10. : 7:56 am]  Sand Wraith -- and a racist action would be creating a programme that encourages outreach to the viet community because it targets viet people!![2016-11-10. : 7:56 am] CecilSunkure -- I really don't think using racial discrimination will ever solve a racial discrimination problem[2016-11-10. : 7:56 am] Lanthanide -- CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: Sand Wraith Yeah of course I do. I just don't believe in taking racist actions not overt ones, anyway[2016-11-10. : 7:55 am] CecilSunkure -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Yeah of course I do. I just don't believe in taking racist actions like seriously, you ever stop to wonder that maybe they're not interested because they never receive outreach, don't feel welcome, or don't have the tools to overcome barriers (like language)?[2016-11-10. : 7:55 am] CecilSunkure -- When you find these cases, I don't think that makes it OK to employ *any* racist policy[2016-11-10. : 7:55 am] Sand Wraith -- like seriously, you ever stop to wonder that maybe they're not interested because they never receive outreach, don't feel welcome, or don't have the tools to overcome barriers (like language)?[2016-11-10. : 7:54 am] CecilSunkure -- If you want to make the case that a group of people aren't represented that's fine[2016-11-10. : 7:54 am] Sand Wraith -- CecilSunkureCecilSunkure shouted: Also, in my experience, minorities don't partake in politics of their own volition Yeah, maybe that has to do a lack of outreach from the existing community.[2016-11-10. : 7:54 am] CecilSunkure -- For example the viet community in Seattle does not partake in politics really at all, and they suffer as a result. But that's their choice[2016-11-10. : 7:53 am] Sand Wraith -- And there are tons of cases where it doesn't and even if a case gets examined by an outer force, other racists are appointed.[2016-11-10. : 7:53 am] CecilSunkure -- Also, in my experience, minorities don't partake in politics of their own volition[2016-11-10. : 7:53 am] CecilSunkure -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: It doesn't except when a community has a political or police force that doesn't represent the minorities and none of the political actors or officers do anything... because they're racist. Cases where police forces are racist happen, and they should be prosecuted and convicted, and there are many cases where this happens.[2016-11-10. : 7:53 am] Sand Wraith -- which might be comprised of a majority of nationally racial minority*[2016-11-10. : 7:52 am] Sand Wraith -- It doesn't except when a community has a political or police force that doesn't represent the minorities and none of the political actors or officers do anything... because they're racist.[2016-11-10. : 7:51 am] Lanthanide -- unfortunately most republicans say that there shouldn't be any race-based policies and the poor should be helped, but then they put the boot into the poor, too[2016-11-10. : 7:50 am] CecilSunkure -- Well its OK if they are minorities. It's irrelevant if they are minorities[2016-11-10. : 7:50 am] Sand Wraith -- yeah, helping poor communities, most of which comprise minorities.[2016-11-10. : 7:50 am] CecilSunkure -- If instead we focus on helping poor communities, then eventually communities in poverty will be lifted to fruitfullness, and all proportions will balance out naturally[2016-11-10. : 7:49 am] CecilSunkure -- For example, if we enforce diversity quotas in hiring, then qualified white people will not get the jobs, and the economy will suffer if those spots are not filled with qualified individuals. In practice, those spots are filled with idiots.[2016-11-10. : 7:48 am] MasterJohnny -- The problem with that is that its possible to be racist without explicitly doing so...[2016-11-10. : 7:48 am] CecilSunkure -- The reason is because I don't believe race is a causation for lack of opportunity anymore. I think focusing on race any longer leads to reductive results[2016-11-10. : 7:46 am] CecilSunkure -- Doesn't matter of there's a racial correlation. If one makes any policy or action based on race, then it's racism perpetuated[2016-11-10. : 7:46 am] Sand Wraith -- it's not the sole problem but race is a line on which economic exploitation occurs.[2016-11-10. : 7:46 am] Sand Wraith -- yeah except I don't when the stats are overwhelmingly correlate race with poverty and access to economic opportunities[2016-11-10. : 7:45 am] CecilSunkure -- I find that lazy and brings about many terrible consequences in the social and emotional spheres[2016-11-10. : 7:45 am] CecilSunkure -- I think it's silly to look at stats and jump to the conclusion of racial causation[2016-11-10. : 7:44 am] CecilSunkure -- And yep, some of those geographic points happen to contain many people of a specific race. But I think that's irrelevant. The poor are poor and that's where I think we should focus[2016-11-10. : 7:43 am] CecilSunkure -- I don't think it's tied to a specific race, but instead tied to geographic and economics[2016-11-10. : 7:43 am] CecilSunkure -- I think lots of people are poor disproportionately, especially according to geography[2016-11-10. : 7:42 am] Sand Wraith -- i see. i believe you. are white people poor to the point of disproportion relative to other communities and the poverty they have to deal with?[2016-11-10. : 7:42 am] CecilSunkure -- There are tons of poor white people. There are just tons of poor people in general[2016-11-10. : 7:41 am] Sand Wraith -- is there a very high correlation of white communities and poverty in the community?\[2016-11-10. : 7:41 am] CecilSunkure -- Enforcing diversity quotas during hiring and SAT scores is what I saw[2016-11-10. : 7:39 am] Sand Wraith -- Okay, let's assume I believe you. Why does this one industry being not-white mean that straight cis white people are systematically discrimnated against?\[2016-11-10. : 7:38 am] CecilSunkure -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Cecil. How does a country predominantly populated by white cis straight people at every level of financial and political status have any systematic racism or discrimination against white straight cis people? The owner or leader of almost every major tech company in the US is non-white. Case in point MS is run largely be Indians[2016-11-10. : 7:37 am] CecilSunkure -- It seemed like it wasn't a secret since the score adjustment only counts for certain schools within CA. So if you apply elsewhere maybe you can easily see the difference[2016-11-10. : 7:37 am] Sand Wraith -- Cecil. How does a country predominantly populated by white cis straight people at every level of financial and political status have any systematic racism or discrimination against white straight cis people?[2016-11-10. : 7:36 am] Lanthanide -- how would she even know, unless the college admission people told her?[2016-11-10. : 7:35 am] Lanthanide -- it's nice if you're going to sell a product like this to asian families, that as part of your marketing you show that they really need your services because otherwise they get penalised by 50 points[2016-11-10. : 7:35 am] CecilSunkure -- Well anecdotally my significant other is from CA and she claims to have had points deducted[2016-11-10. : 7:35 am] Lanthanide -- and actually they're targetting asians, who they say are penalised by 50 points, but they don't actually have evidence for that[2016-11-10. : 7:35 am] Lanthanide -- note the word "assumes", all that stuff about adjusting scores with 'bonus' points is just made up by that company[2016-11-10. : 7:34 am] Lanthanide -- although actually that article about the SAT scores, says this: "Lee is the co-founder of HS2 Academy, a college prep business that assumes that racial bias is a fact of college admissions and counsels students accordingly. 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