Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Theory and Ideas > Topic: Bound: Waits or Death Counters?
Bound: Waits or Death Counters?
May 12 2010, 4:07 am
By: mapping4joy  
Polls
What method do you prefer when making a bound?
What method do you prefer when making a bound?
Answer Votes Percentage % Voters
Death Counters 7
 
64%
Waits 4
 
37%
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Poll has 11 votes. You can vote for at most 1 option(s).

May 12 2010, 4:07 am mapping4joy Post #1



I can't decide on whether I should use death counters or waits to create my bound. What are the pros and cons of each and what do you guys usually use?



None.

May 12 2010, 4:26 am ImagoDeo Post #2



I haven't specifically made a bound myself, but death counters are always the way to go.

Pretty much the biggest con to waits is that only one wait can run per player at a time. So if you have two triggers running that both use a wait, the actions of the second trigger that occur after the wait will be delayed for the combined times of both waits instead of just after the time of the wait in the trigger.

Not too complex if you read it enough times.



None.

May 12 2010, 4:52 am FoxWolf1 Post #3



Quote from ImagoDeo
I haven't specifically made a bound myself, but death counters are always the way to go.

Pretty much the biggest con to waits is that only one wait can run per player at a time. So if you have two triggers running that both use a wait, the actions of the second trigger that occur after the wait will be delayed for the combined times of both waits instead of just after the time of the wait in the trigger.

Not too complex if you read it enough times.

You should almost never say "always".

OP: If you're good enough with trigger order and general trigger knowledge to avoid wait blocks, then it'd probably be faster to make the map using waits. In a bound, this is fairly easy, because you tend to spend most of your time with just one trigger running repeatedly. Of course, if you're going to do things in some crazy way and make a mess of it, death count timing would be the safer option. Also, if you're going to have more complex systems that require multiple time intervals being measured simultaneously, then you should use death counts; that's not to say that there aren't wait-based systems that will allow you to time multiple events without wait blocks (because there are), but once you get into them, you lose the simplicity advantage of the waits, and would have an easier time of it just using a death-count-based system. So really, I'd say it depends on your situation.



None.

May 13 2010, 12:28 am Roy Post #4

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Original Post


(Edit following the first post's request)

My preference for Bounds: Waits

Quote from Death Counter Timers for Bounds
Pros
- No wait blocks, so bad triggering won't necessarily break the obstacle
- Obstacles start immediately
- Good practice for more complex maps

Cons
- Inefficient (Takes longer, more triggers)
- If you're not used to them, timing is more difficult
- More difficult to go through/adjust obstacles
- A little more complicated vs Waits

Quote from Wait Timers for Bounds
Pros
- Easy to understand and adjust
- More efficient
- Keeps things slightly more organized
- Unlikely to encounter wait blocks since one obstacle runs at a time
- Common method among bound makers
- Runs a little smoother / more evenly vs Death Counts

Cons
- Possibility to encounter Wait Blocks
- Delay between next obstacle start (Unless a wait block solution is performed)


Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on May 13 2010, 10:54 pm by Roy.




May 14 2010, 4:17 am mapping4joy Post #5



Well, using waits is like 10x faster for me just because of Angelfarto's Boundmaker.



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[06:10 pm]
Ultraviolet -- sweet summer child
[2026-6-26. : 10:31 am]
NudeRaider -- blessed innocent soul knows nothing of the strife we had before EUDs were discovered :teehee:
[2026-6-23. : 3:29 am]
DarkenedFantasies -- Probably just didn't care. For example, at some point before release, they've updated the graphics of some of the Protoss buildings (Forge, CyberCore, Citadel, Observatory, Arbiter Tribunal), but instead of properly re-rendering them with edited 3D models, they did crappy copy-paste jobs on the rendered graphics.
[2026-6-22. : 8:35 pm]
Ultraviolet -- :wob:
[2026-6-21. : 11:38 pm]
Symmetry -- :wob:
[2026-6-21. : 4:56 am]
Ultraviolet -- I suppose we'll likely never know, but my guess would be that they already saw it operating successfully and there was no monetary incentive to finish the original work. And the dev cycle in old school Blizzard was so hectic, it's possible it just got forgotten about after the original game got released. Plus there's an element of existing MPQ files that were packaged with the original discs becoming outdated if they updated it. And it's not like they remade the original MPQs, they just made new ones for BW specifically
[2026-6-21. : 4:26 am]
Oh_Man -- so that makes me think maybe the theory they are unfinished is not true and its a deliberate design decision, coz why not finish them wen ur making brood war?
[2026-6-21. : 4:25 am]
Oh_Man -- the thing is thos buildings are from classic. that means they went ahead and made brood war without ever finishing the 'unfinished' buildings
[2026-6-20. : 6:15 pm]
Ultraviolet -- Yeah he's talked about a lot of that stuff in his casts before. It seems plausible. Especially knowing how Blizzard of yesteryear operated.
[2026-6-20. : 3:47 pm]
NudeRaider -- to clarify: couldn't recall the behavior for every single Protoss building but I was aware the disparity exists.
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