So, I have a HUGE map project that I started a while ago, only to realize that no matter what I do, I cannot get the computer to JUST upgrade. Even with the preset AI's, I cannot...

Here's the situation:

My map is an ORPG. I want the enemies to "level" proportionately to the players' characters, depending on the number of kills they get. This would be so that players cannot just grind on weaker enemies while they spawn endlessly, giving the player near infinite income.

I know there are things out there that you can download that will give you a custom AI, but that involves modifying your mpq file; in essence, only those that have the custom AI file can play the map the right way. This is where my problem comes in: I just want people to download and play, right then and there. Having other players download an arbitrary file just to play a map makes it less fun.

Is there anything else I can do to solve this problem? As of right now, the preset AI's make all the enemies run towards their building (that I have put off the play area for behind the scenes upgrading) from the get-go. I just want them to sit where they are spawned, and possibly walk around a little bit, but thats all.

I am also uploading the most recent version for criticism/trigger help. (Would also be a good time for that anyways, haven't had time to test it out online, so have at it).

Attachments:

I had this same problem when making Random Quest RPG, what I ended up doing, was since I had 3 computer players, I gave each different upgrades, one would have like the hydras, another the zerglings, and another the zealots, and each would have a different upgrade amount for each unit, when I wanted them to level up, I would start creating them for the higher leveled player instead.

Of course, if you don't have a large number of extra computers, this won't work for you, so another way you could do it is to start them out with like half health, and if they're not a zerg unit or something, they'll be easier to kill at first, and you can slowly up the amount of health they start with. You can also give them better tech, like you could give vultures faster speed, or marines longer range and stim packs, by giving them a unit from a player that has that tech researched.

I like the giving the unit that the player has... it'll work with giving some of my units psi storm when they didn't have it before...

I have 2 comps currently... so maybe a combo of both?

I'll see what I can do over the next few days, in the meantime, tell me what you guys think of the map as it is right now, in case I need to change/fix anything...

P.S. - I'm thinking of adding in a mobile grid system down the road... something to keep in mind/help out with if at all possible.

The wiki has a nice article on grids.

About the tech giving:
You could have different techs researched by P9-12. I'm not sure if it would give you the tech when you give a unit from them, but it's worth a shot when you're low on comp players.

About preventing of infinite grinding:
Keeping up with player's upgrades is hard to do. Falk mentioned a few ways to stretch the problem. But I got more subtle methods in mind:
In general, construct the map in a way that makes it impossible/unattractive for the player to grind indefinitely:
- Time limit. Don't set it too tight. When time's up then either lose outright or create a big rush that overruns his base/city/whatever. Do something else that is very harmful for the player. You get the idea.

- Limit XP/Money given. When the player has gathered x amount of XP/has killed x units stop giving him more xp/money from kills. Display a message that says the character cannot learn anymore from this type of enemy. Giving less xp/money with every kill is also possible. Or just simply stop spawning them / make spawning so scarce that he will be bored to death. "Area cleared!"

- Make higher level enemies *much* more rewarding. If he gets 5-10 times the money for fighting the bigger foes once he's able to deal with him he will stop killing those teeny weeny enemies and move on instead.

- In combination with the last point: Start competition between players by not using shared xp. Usually players will try to keep up with the guy with most xp. You could further encourage that with arena events where even losers will gain more xp than they would have gotten through grinding. Winners will ofc get the prize money. Obviously you have to limit access to the arena or players would just fight each other for xp.

=O I love you...

no seriously... Thank you for the ideas. I can use a combination of them.

Here's what I have in mind: I will try the Player9-12 techs, like upgrade levels 5/5, 10/10, 20/20, 50/50 or something like that, and if it works, yay... but i don't think upgrades pass... instead what I can do is research, like psi storm for specific Tassadar units, so that they don't just spam them outright from the beginning (instant death for low levels).

After that, I will limit the XP given by each monster once the player who kills it has over X amount of XP. (thanks for that idea, might be the best fix.) I already have individual gold/exp rewards, so thats not a problem. I also already planned on making the harder enemies more rewarding, so that's also not a problem.

on the side, is anyone interested in testing? I'm open to opinions (^.^)

You're welcome

Upgrades will definetely NOT work with P9-12. What i meant is techs like stim, range, etc.

And yes, I'd be willing to test the map. Can I dl it somewhere or will you host a private game?
PM me name time, date and channel where I can meet you.

The map itself is the attachment in my first post, and I'm not available at the moment, but I am on U.S. East, same name as it is here... I will PM you once I have a definitive time available to get online

EDIT - The map I use is called "Undead Zeratul's RPG.scx" and it wouldn't let me upload it, I assume because of the asterisk. If you want, go ahead and change the downloaded one from this thread into that, and tat way you won't have duplicates when I start hosting it online (besides the different versions of course)

I dled the attachment and played it but there wasnt much to test.

The only thing that worked were the shop and unit spawns.

Problems:
- We had no idea what to do
- Couldn't enter warpgate, castle or inn
- All XP we gathered was removed instantly
- No minerals given to buy anything
- No one to talk to
- Spell/skills not explained
- Item information beacon did not work

Given that all these things are missing there wasn't much to test.
When you have a playable version feel free to contact me again and I will gladly test again.

You'll have to forgive me then... the map is old, and I haven't touched it in a while due to this problem... I will work on those, and thank you for addressing them. I actually forgot where I was while making it. You did play single player I presume, not that it'll change anything, but that's what I always play on to test... so just seeing if the results would be different... I'll have to add those systems later today when I get home.

yay direction!... >.>

I don't think you got clearly what I meant when I said tech, upgrades are different than Tech, and cannot be transferred by giving the player, which is why I also mentioned the health thing.

i was playing with 2 friends on bnet.

no I understood... I just figured it out as I was posting it, So I know that upgrades won't pass through, but as long as techs do, then my example with the tassadar units will still apply. I also believe that I may have an unused player that I can use as another computer for upgraded versions, or a third tier of the monster. I might also make the townspeople p12, freeing up the current player, so that it can also be used as a computer tier, making a total of 4 players and 4 computer tiers...

I'll have to see how that goes, I may make a map thread in the map production section specifically for the project itself, since this is almost resolved (unless someone has anymore ideas tbh).

Other than that, I will add more XP/Gold rewards from monster kills, figure out why they were being removed (never did that for me before), and anything else that was mentioned to be fixed...

EDIT:
Ah, jw... well, At this point, none of the storyline is really completed, only 50% of the terrain is done, and the systems are still underway... I'm only like 20% done with the map, so I'm sorry if it was less complete than u thought/expected it to be...

I never got past broodling enemies since I couldn't heal so I never received gold. The message just said +1XP + 0 Gold.
When I looked at the leaderboard I could see the XP rise up to 25 per kill, but it got reset to 0 after about 1 second.
Btw. at that point I'd recommend hypertriggers. They make everything so much more responsive

yeah, so I figured. No problem.

well thanks for letting me know the specifics, I'll start looking into that... It should keep the score, I've made RPG's before,
I just don't understand why this one isn't working... I also already have hypers (I never make a map without em ).

EDIT - right now I believe I am using method three of the kills to cash system, with the DC improvement...

anything I can do to improve it?

EDIT #2 - I know what I did... <facepalm> I didn't switch back the leaderboard to say custom, and not kill score (I was using it to see what the kill score was for each killing unit because I didn't have the table on this site at the time, so I was manually seeing what units gave what score. Now that I have access to the list, I can just leave it on custom... I forgot about that, sorry =D.... it really does work, you just won't know it with that version unless you want to change it back urself...)

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 23 2008, 3:12 am by Undead_Zeratul.