I am just about fed up with this store system.
The compendium tells me this:
Signature Enabler
Enables the use of signatures.
Average cost: 175
Rarity: 25
But the store interface shows this:
Cost: 334
4 in stock
Since it goes up to 334 minerals, can we assume it goes down to 16 minerals as well? What nonsense; just because someone scrambles in on a lucky day they can get a signature for less than a raffle ticket? Since minerals were brought back, I have yet to see any of the items cost fewer minerals than even 150% of their average cost. Something is wrong here.
But before you admins fix the randomization code, please think about this: why are the prices randomized? Are random prices necessary? The way I see it, they are completely pointless and only discourage people from using the system simply because luckier people can get the same thing for substantially less.
Here are the benefits and drawbacks of each system outlined:
Static Prices, infinite stock, all items listed:
Benefits:
Static Prices, limited stock, items randomly listed:
Benefits:
Yes, okay, IP made the store system. However, IP is not infallible, even if he does pay the bill that keeps SEN online. Things need to change.
The compendium tells me this:
Signature Enabler
Enables the use of signatures.
Average cost: 175
Rarity: 25
But the store interface shows this:
Cost: 334
4 in stock
Since it goes up to 334 minerals, can we assume it goes down to 16 minerals as well? What nonsense; just because someone scrambles in on a lucky day they can get a signature for less than a raffle ticket? Since minerals were brought back, I have yet to see any of the items cost fewer minerals than even 150% of their average cost. Something is wrong here.
But before you admins fix the randomization code, please think about this: why are the prices randomized? Are random prices necessary? The way I see it, they are completely pointless and only discourage people from using the system simply because luckier people can get the same thing for substantially less.
Here are the benefits and drawbacks of each system outlined:
Static Prices, infinite stock, all items listed:
Benefits:
- Simple, intuitive, foolproof system.
- Prices are stable, thus non-confusing and predictable.
- People working towards a store item has a "goal" of mineral amount towards which they will work for by contributing positively.
- Impossible to have glitchy price levels if the code is written and double-checked by a moderately educated Homo sapiens.
- Fair to all users of the store.
- Stocks never run out, thus everyone can purchase an item whenever they have enough minerals.
- Items are always stocked, rather than disappearing from the store page because of "rarity".
- A set value for items allows users to be appropriately compensated/charged due to any change in prices.
- None.
Static Prices, limited stock, items randomly listed:
Benefits:
- Novelty value.
- ...?
- Unstable prices, unpredictable, impossible to evaluate when an item is at a sufficiently low value.
- The prices' fluctuation will cause some members to spend more minerals than others for the same item.
- The random nature of the prices mean that it is occasionally cheaper to purchase two items (like PM +75) than to purchase one more expensive item that has the same function (PM +150).
- Makes no sense. SEN does not run on minerals. We are not a market economy. Item stock is a bunch of bits in a hard drive rather than some physical limitation on how many of ________ can be given to members.
Yes, okay, IP made the store system. However, IP is not infallible, even if he does pay the bill that keeps SEN online. Things need to change.
A debate ensued, and I have copied the appropriate posts here.
Quote from 
Devourer
DevourerI thought I did already said that: the signature cost been made cheaper. This does not affect the items currently being in the store. Thus, you have to wait till after the next stock-reset.
Quote from 
Aristocrat
AristocratI thought I did already said that: the signature cost been made cheaper. This does not affect the items currently being in the store. Thus, you have to wait till after the next stock-reset.
No. Dynamic prices are horrid. Please consider revamping the store to hold items with static costs.
Quote from Devourer
DevourerNow, that's your opinion 
Quote from Aristocrat
AristocratNow, that's your opinion
Give a good reason why we should have a store with dynamic prices instead of one where all item prices are non-varying.
Quote from NudeRaider
NudeRaiderBecause then it's a gamble. Do you wait for the item to become even cheaper or do you buy now?
Gambling is a game, and minerals are a game. Generally it makes minerals less boring.
Give a good reason why we should have a store with static items.
Gambling is a game, and minerals are a game. Generally it makes minerals less boring.
Give a good reason why we should have a store with static items.
Quote from Centreri
CentreriMake it fair/predictable. I don't see why someone who checked the store at the right time gets it cheaply instantly, while someone else has to either pay more or wait for an extended period of time.
The reason for static prices is fairness. That for random is?
Also, you doodz promised other skins. What the hell.
The reason for static prices is fairness. That for random is?
Also, you doodz promised other skins. What the hell.
Quote from Aristocrat
AristocratGive a good reason why we should have a store with static items.
Read my post. I even boxed it with
tags.
Because it gives people a clear and focused goal. If the prices are randomized, then people are going to just wait for the cheapest deals, thus people won't be buying items nearly as often, and people have a less concise goal to achieve.
What gives more incentive to contribute to SEN: I need 200 minerals for a signature, and I want a signature!! or: I have 100 minerals and I want a signature; I'm going to wait until I can get a good deal at the store.
Since people are going to be waiting for the cheapest prices, the chances of being able to buy an item are cut in half, and the store's activity is thus going to be cut in half.
I say it would be more fun and meaningful to have all the available items static and in a large list, categorized by price or function -I don't care.
And you prefer... inconvenience? I'm lost here.
Also working towards a goal would encourage spam.Like the fact that having the mineral system itself doesn't.
And you prefer... inconvenience? I'm lost here.
Also working towards a goal would encourage spam.Like the fact that having the mineral system itself doesn't.I have said on several occasions that every item in use and in your inventory should have been deleted to have a fresh start for everyone. It may be difficult for you to believe but I earned all these items through helpful posting and with the same store and I was always happy when I could add another item to my collection. I was never bothered by fluctuating prices. On the contrary! I saw it as a chance to get my item earlier than with fixed prices which usually worked out. So I don't understand why you don't appreciate the chance to get items cheaper, too.
I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying that the SEN store is inconvenient, it's simply a different system. I still like the comparison with a flea market. Sure, it might be less convenient than going to a store and buying a vase for a fixed price when you know they have what you like, but you can't call a flea market where you're looking for something interesting inconvenient. Well, actually, I'm sure some do, but those simply do not belong there. Those people should just press on "disable fun" and get their free sig and be happy until the end of days. Unfortunately, despite quite a few voices demanding the return of "disable fun", there's no word if or when it will return. Still I'm sure it will, eventually.
Yes, we knew it would encourage some SENners to post more than they normally would, but we love minerals so we decided that by taking appropriate measures we can keep the spam to a minimum and maybe even encourage productivity. No reason to alter regulations in a way that could make people spam more.
Are you serious? Have you clicked on the store page?
Store page:[encase]
Shoutbox Colors
Enables the use of permanently selecting any color for the shoutbox.
Cost: 560
3 in stock
Quote from DavidJCobb
DavidJCobbI'm with Aristo on all counts. The randomization is completely and totally worthless, as is the "stock" system.
Quote from CecilSunkure
CecilSunkureBecause then it's a gamble. Do you wait for the item to become even cheaper or do you buy now?
Gambling is a game, and minerals are a game. Generally it makes minerals less boring.
Give a good reason why we should have a store with static items.
Gambling is a game, and minerals are a game. Generally it makes minerals less boring.
Give a good reason why we should have a store with static items.
What gives more incentive to contribute to SEN: I need 200 minerals for a signature, and I want a signature!! or: I have 100 minerals and I want a signature; I'm going to wait until I can get a good deal at the store.
Since people are going to be waiting for the cheapest prices, the chances of being able to buy an item are cut in half, and the store's activity is thus going to be cut in half.
I say it would be more fun and meaningful to have all the available items static and in a large list, categorized by price or function -I don't care.
Quote from 
DevliN
DevliNI like the stock idea for rare items like name color, custom smilie, Excaliban Trophy, etc.
Quote from NudeRaider
NudeRaiderOh didn't read your big post before, sorry.
The problem is you guys don't see it as a game. You're making this too serious. Like a business like amazon. Where everything has fixed prices, and is always in stock. Shopping via amazon is surely very fun... No it isn't. It's just convenient. 'Cause you buy things you actually have use for. Does a shoutbox color have a use? No. It's just for fun. (And before you say it: Even though avatar+ has a use it's still not changing anything you do at SEN. It's really just for fun.)
The SEN store is more comparable to a flea market where you stroll over every now and then and check for interesting things. Granted there's too few items right now to convey that feeling, but still that's the general idea. It's more fun to check the store every now and then and when you see a good deal you're happy and if not you just come back another day. It's not like it's gonna run away or like you really need the items offered.
Also working towards a goal would encourage spam. The idea is to just relax, post like you always do and when you get the opportunity you spend your wealth.
The problem is you guys don't see it as a game. You're making this too serious. Like a business like amazon. Where everything has fixed prices, and is always in stock. Shopping via amazon is surely very fun... No it isn't. It's just convenient. 'Cause you buy things you actually have use for. Does a shoutbox color have a use? No. It's just for fun. (And before you say it: Even though avatar+ has a use it's still not changing anything you do at SEN. It's really just for fun.)
The SEN store is more comparable to a flea market where you stroll over every now and then and check for interesting things. Granted there's too few items right now to convey that feeling, but still that's the general idea. It's more fun to check the store every now and then and when you see a good deal you're happy and if not you just come back another day. It's not like it's gonna run away or like you really need the items offered.
Also working towards a goal would encourage spam. The idea is to just relax, post like you always do and when you get the opportunity you spend your wealth.
Quote from Aristocrat
AristocratOf course, it's difficult for you to sound convincing, as someone with a custom smiley, name color, signature, title, and plentiful avatar/PM space, already possessing everything that is a part of your definition of "fun".
Shopping via amazon is surely very fun... No it isn't. It's just convenient.
Shopping via amazon is surely very fun... No it isn't. It's just convenient.
Also working towards a goal would encourage spam.Like the fact that having the mineral system itself doesn't.
Quote from NudeRaider
NudeRaiderOf course, it's difficult for you to sound convincing, as someone with a custom smiley, name color, signature, title, and plentiful avatar/PM space, already possessing everything that is a part of your definition of "fun".
Shopping via amazon is surely very fun... No it isn't. It's just convenient.
Shopping via amazon is surely very fun... No it isn't. It's just convenient.
Also working towards a goal would encourage spam.Like the fact that having the mineral system itself doesn't.I have said on several occasions that every item in use and in your inventory should have been deleted to have a fresh start for everyone. It may be difficult for you to believe but I earned all these items through helpful posting and with the same store and I was always happy when I could add another item to my collection. I was never bothered by fluctuating prices. On the contrary! I saw it as a chance to get my item earlier than with fixed prices which usually worked out. So I don't understand why you don't appreciate the chance to get items cheaper, too.
I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying that the SEN store is inconvenient, it's simply a different system. I still like the comparison with a flea market. Sure, it might be less convenient than going to a store and buying a vase for a fixed price when you know they have what you like, but you can't call a flea market where you're looking for something interesting inconvenient. Well, actually, I'm sure some do, but those simply do not belong there. Those people should just press on "disable fun" and get their free sig and be happy until the end of days. Unfortunately, despite quite a few voices demanding the return of "disable fun", there's no word if or when it will return. Still I'm sure it will, eventually.
Yes, we knew it would encourage some SENners to post more than they normally would, but we love minerals so we decided that by taking appropriate measures we can keep the spam to a minimum and maybe even encourage productivity. No reason to alter regulations in a way that could make people spam more.
Quote from Devourer
DevourerBecause many said that the store is totally bugged...
It is as it should be, there is nothing "horribly wrong".
Min cost: 50, max cost:150. Average: 100! Rly?! Ya!
This is all, nothing else. E.g. name color
1000-2000 average: 1500. (if these are correct values).
Stop crying about it.
It is as it should be, there is nothing "horribly wrong".
Min cost: 50, max cost:150. Average: 100! Rly?! Ya!
This is all, nothing else. E.g. name color
1000-2000 average: 1500. (if these are correct values).
Stop crying about it.
Quote from Aristocrat
AristocratBecause many said that the store is totally bugged...
It is as it should be, there is nothing "horribly wrong".
Min cost: 50, max cost:150. Average: 100! Rly?! Ya!
This is all, nothing else. E.g. name color
1000-2000 average: 1500. (if these are correct values).
Stop crying about it.
It is as it should be, there is nothing "horribly wrong".
Min cost: 50, max cost:150. Average: 100! Rly?! Ya!
This is all, nothing else. E.g. name color
1000-2000 average: 1500. (if these are correct values).
Stop crying about it.
Are you serious? Have you clicked on the store page?
Store page:[encase]
Shoutbox Colors
Enables the use of permanently selecting any color for the shoutbox.
Cost: 560
3 in stock
Compendium:
Shoutbox Colors
Enables the use of permanently selecting any color for the shoutbox.
Average cost: 275
Rarity: 50
Assuming 560 is max value, and 275 the average, the min value must be -10 minerals.
Obviously, something is bugged here. Please stop being so insistent that nothing is broken and actually check the store page before dismissing everything.
Quote from Devourer
DevourerActually, there is a cost modifier which increases the price by X after calculating the price.
lets say, the modifier is 25, min price 50 and max 100
Price: 90 (random) + 25 -> 115.
lets say, the modifier is 25, min price 50 and max 100
Price: 90 (random) + 25 -> 115.
Quote from Aristocrat
AristocratActually, there is a cost modifier which increases the price by X after calculating the price.
lets say, the modifier is 25, min price 50 and max 100
Price: 90 (random) + 25 -> 115.
lets say, the modifier is 25, min price 50 and max 100
Price: 90 (random) + 25 -> 115.
What is the point of the modifier when you can just increase both the min price and the max price by 25 and get the same effect? The modifier effectively raises the average price. Therefore, the average price should take the modifier into account as well, otherwise it would be an erroneous display.
Quote from Devourer
DevourerIP coded it before I worked on SEN. I simply used his code, because why should I recode stuff which was already done?
Quote from NudeRaider
NudeRaiderBecause it's broken?
Quote from Devourer
Devourerdefine broken, lol. Broken is something different, this is rather intended.
Then you have bad intentions. The example Aristo has shown is clearly stupid. The price range should be smaller.
Which do you support? The current system, or a store with static prices?
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Aug 30 2010, 9:54 pm by Aristocrat. Reason: Lolwut
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