I don't have to an obsessive player to form a valid opinion on a game.

To Mayor and others, Obviously If I haven't played this crazy good map, I can't nominate it. So, in essence, this thread also pins on the most popular, or, as Kaias would say, overrated map. But yeah, some unfinished maps are way better than many finished maps. There're several RPG's that I couldn't finished, but the unfinished product was really fun already. You could say our ambition made us fail in producing finished map. But again, if Lethal's map aren't being played, then you can hardly expect me to nominate him...
If you're including me with the others then I, personally, don't expect or even want you to nominate him. I never nominated him myself. All I'm doing is posing questions to those who have nominated him and others about what we should take into account when deciding who is the best mapper. The list of qualities you posted are very good ones that I agree with.

[quote=name:UnholyUrine]
There're lots to a good mapper. Off the top of my head, I can list that a good mapper has to have good: triggering, talent in concept, gameplay, design, presentation, general feel, and patience with mapping, and probably much more... to make a good map. If he doesn't have the patience to finish an rpg (which most don't), then he isn't the "best" mapper, but he'd still be a great one. I voted Tux because he had the patience to make RUSH and Galactic Gunners and Astrogears (tho i hate astrogears b/c it's over the top complicated)... :S... not many ppl can spend so much time in making games like those.

Also, I'd have to disagree with Kaias here. Clearly he doesn't have any experience around the general battle.net community, clans, or familiarity with previously popular maps. The large obsessive following around TS isn't anything new. There are plenty of maps that have had clans centered around them and they still exist. I think the only thing unique about TS is that it has the benefit of a large site, SEN, to help its popularity and that the creators and fans of TS are able to use this to their advantage. The fans and creators of other popular maps aren't regulars to SEN and therefore you don't see it talked about much.

Kaias has been living under a rock in his own isolated little world and he's seeing the effects of a good and popular map for the first time.

Of course I'm basing it off of SeN following, don't be imbecilic.

How do you do that?
(Yes, I know what you mean, but I was not granted any leeway for the words "on it".)

Kaias, I am simply pointing out that you have provided no argument to back up your claim that TS is the "most overrated map".

Kaias, I am simply pointing out that you have provided no argument to back up your claim that TS is the "most overrated map".

you haven't provided an argument that shows why it's ridiculous.

you still haven't told us why it's overrated(in other words, why it deserves less of a rating than it receives from people). Please point out the flaws you've found while playing it.

Best map: Temple Siege
Best terrainer: MNeox
Best staff: MiniMoose
Best member overall: Doodle77
Worst spammer: Vi3t-X
Best fight: Esponeo vs Hercanic (How could this one not win?)
Artist of the year: Wilhelm
Tech member: Excalibur
Best newb: TassadarZeratul (remember this isn't derogatory)

Well, ClansAreForGays, you have yet to provide an arguement on why Temple Siege is the best map, MNeox is the best terrainer, MiniMoose is the best staff, Doodle77 is the best overall member, Viet-X is the worst spammer, Espeono fight is the best fight, Wilhelm is the artist of the year, Excalibur is the Best Tech Member and TassadarZeratul is the best noob.

The very fact that I automatically have to provide an argument for impuning your beloved Temple Siege, is evidence itself that it's followed with superfluous zeal. I wasn't saying Temple Siege is a terrible map, but I am saying that four major Temple Siege Tournaments hosted across SEN, a 55 page long thread of people arguing with each other over the most minute semantics and nuances in every detail of the game, at every suggested balance flaw, TS terrain threads, constant hosting, and a massive cult ready to stone anyone who says it's overrated- all over an above average AoS map, is overboard.

There's a difference between not providing an argument and refusing to provide one. Now that you've posed the question to him I'm sure he can provide an argument to defend it, unlike you. You have yet to defend your opinion when asked to, and that is the difference.

It's not overboard at all. What do you expect from a good map that the SEN community loves to play? Of course they're going to host tournaments, discuss the map, constantly argue about balance, and host it all the time. The amount of attention it is getting is just a reflection of how good it is, and that cannot be overboard.

And we aren't stoning you at all. All we are asking for is a reason why you think its overrated. You haven't done that and it seems like you aren't just so that you can use that to say we are a cult when if you would just explain why you think it's overrated the issue would be resolved.

What I find hilarious, is that I'm expected to. I merely listed TS in a 'Most Overrated:' category and a bunch of guys jump on my nuts, accusing me of not providing an arguement. The fact is that I wasn't presenting an arguement.

Well, ClansAreForGays, you have yet to provide an arguement on why Temple Siege is the best map, MNeox is the best terrainer, MiniMoose is the best staff, Doodle77 is the best overall member, Viet-X is the worst spammer, Espeono fight is the best fight, Wilhelm is the artist of the year, Excalibur is the Best Tech Member and TassadarZeratul is the best noob.

The very fact that I automatically have to provide an argument for impuning your beloved Temple Siege, is evidence itself that it's followed with superfluous zeal. I wasn't saying Temple Siege is a terrible map, but I am saying that four major Temple Siege Tournaments hosted across SEN, a 55 page long thread of people arguing with each other over the most minute semantics and nuances in every detail of the game, at every suggested balance flaw, TS terrain threads, constant hosting, and a massive cult ready to stone anyone who says it's overrated- all over an above average AoS map, is overboard.

The fact of the matter is that Temple Siege is one of the better maps made for Starcraft, it's just my opinion that it's fanboyism is excessive- just how Devilesk feels about Rush, and the only one who contested that was Falkoner.

I agree. They are over reacting. There was no where that stated that you have to give a reason to why or why not you voted for or against anyone or any map.

I just presented my explanation of why I think it is overrated. You refuse to see it.

You provided a poor argument arguing that it's being played and discussed excessively. Disregarding the fact that you still haven't satisfactorily proved that point, you still haven't shown how excess equates to being overrated.

Are you a moron? People think the map is so great, that it draws all this attention is evidence of it, that people obsess over it, trying to find the perfect counter in every circumstance, that it's current leader in Best Map nomination is evidence of it. It's just a slightly above average map. That is why it's overrated.

It's just a slightly above average map.

Another baseless statement. The fact that you're stating that it gets a lot attention shows that it's not slightly above average.

Attention does not make the map. That is false logic. And it's not a baseless statement, it's my opinion. Right now, you're just trolling.

Best mapper: This is really hard, a lot of good mappers from the past have either gone or haven't really done anything spectacular this year. But in the end I think I am going to vote for azala.

Where have I said that attention made the map? Are you saying that the average map is popular? If you think that it's slightly above average how are you defining "slightly"? The point is that you haven't explained why you think its slightly above average at all.