Why would it need any more countering. Enemy spawns would open fire on the temple instead of the heroes ;o

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counteroffer

Ah there we go. I was reading your response and caught comprehend for the life of me why u thought summiner would be gg in that situation. All you need to know is dark swarm has NO effect on buildings.

Wow, I swear I've seen pro Terrans back off all the time against a swarmed expo with no support troops. That really surprised me, I just went and tested it. =o

Either way though, if what I said with plague was true, he'll be the only class that can absorb damage, and hydras compared to any other spawns are just so powerful.

Hydras being over-buffed is probably correct...
don't forget the HP increase of the spawns, and that hydras are ranged.
and we might as well add a final spawn after hydra, probably goliaths...
And we should make it require 4 civs to upgrade spawn =o.. that'd probably even things out..

Sounds about right, if your enemies pick sin, dm, and mech, theres a pretty good chance if you upped spawns all the way you'll be on top of them by the time they have enough mana to spam l4.

Worked for me and my bro

Just a thought did anyone think about a random beacon? like random heros also a new challenge why not make a random upgrade status where you upgrade spells like it says one civ goes to spells. and one goes to spanw upgrade or so on. I think that would be sweet

In the wake of the arguable "invinc heroes at heal" failure, I won't be ashamed to admit defeat and give up. The sooner we accept the fact that spawns will be nothing more than food, the better. Is it really so bad? Is the game still fun? Have we enjoyed the challenge of just figuring out ways to get the most out of our meals?


What's so problematic is the uniquely thin line between spawns being total rape and total feed.
Every other problem has really just had a band-aid put on it to stop the bleeding, but spawns(as I've said before) will require a total re-imagining of the game. And plan plan to balance spawns that can be fit into a few lines(make this that, and that this) is doomed to fail.

[start master plan]
Increase spawn life and damage, besides hydra. Summoner's lings need to be weaker, lowered upgrades perhaps with higher start damage. Spawn less of them.
[/end]

OK, as far as I know, the current 1.4M is going to be the tournament version. Then my real experiementation with the map starts. (and yes, I'll rename it)

- The Temples have 50000 HP and 25 armor.
- The Gates now have 9000 HP and 20 armor.
- Fixed Kill Score to XP disparities between the teams.
- Changed the max XP cap to apply to units giving over 600 kill score. This means all heroes and upper spawns and such giving a ton of kill score will be worth a max of 16 per kill.
- Slightly enlarged South team's base. (fixed some pathing AI problems... and because it was way smaller than North team's.)
- Broodlings have 60 HP and do 7 dmg.
- Pylon stats: 1500 HP, 10 Armor, 400 shields.
- Cannon stats: 2500 HP, 10 Armor, 500 shields, 60 dmg.
- Made Outpost Gates invincible.
- Changed purchase cost of spawn level up to 4.
- Archer's upgrade damage increased from +4 to +5.
- Decreased attack of Bike Mode from 30 to 25. (Mech)
- L4 only attacks with 3 Vults/Gols/Tanks instead of 4. (Mech)
- If a player leaves while disabled you can actually win. (Medic)
- Changed HP of mines from 5 to 3. (Spec Ops)
- Changed Dark Archon's Shields from 300 to 250. (Dark Mage)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 6 2008, 5:06 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

So the DA will no longer be an incredible amount of XP? If so, this change will help me, since as it is, it gives so much XP that I can't resist the temptation to attack it even when I know full well that doing so is certain death...

This.

Seriously though, it mostly sounds good, especially the archer atk increase,because that makes it a viable strategy to go for attack and hps etc instead of air attack.(i aint gonna stop though. ) I actually think it's not such a good idea with the exp cap, because it's soo much lolpwnage watching people trying to freeze me with volt/DM/w/e and then getting lolpwned by mutas. When I think about it, this makes the Archer weaker in the long run for my particular strategy, although my brother will like it.
Win.Too annoying trying to snipe em otherwise. How much exp do mines give anyway?

Enough to make it say level up twice if you storm 40

Yes, this includes the DA. I forgot to mention I cut the DA's shields to 250 because of this.

25... which is the same as a Broodling.

omg assassin is rigged! You can't see it at night, and it'll still stun you even if you're far away! D:

So build a detector and rape its incredible low HP?

Actually Assassin is quite weak, because levelling it is almost impossible.

Assassin sucks early game, but is a powerful player/basekiller at end.

Is people racing for the Rine in every single game of the tournament enough evidence that you need to lower its attack to 18+2 or so? This "ultra super secret change" could be nice too, but until then, fix the damage.

And please fix the Mech L4, it's rigged to hell. It should spawn half as many guys and it will still be powerful enough with the way most Mechs upgrade.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 7 2008, 4:51 am by FaZ-.

I would like to point out that battle tanks should be changed. Instead of having it carry 10 scarabs, make it modified to carry just 1 with preserve trigger. Each scarab counts as a unit, therefore lagging the game.