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[2017-9-06. : 9:59 pm]  Vrael -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: MN is the moon you scrub MN is Moose Nation you scrub[2017-9-06. : 9:44 pm] jjf28 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: jjf28 gj. http://i.imgur.com/KMLUtbA.png But seriously, don't die please. I'm leaving tomorrow for TN, possibly MN depending on the damage [2017-9-06. : 9:43 pm] jjf28 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: jjf28 Are you certain? I seem to remember that they are attack anyone, regardless of alliances. Altough maybe *you* still see them as friendlies? I'm pretty confident as this was among the ways I tried to make elves auto-owned until claimed in helms, though the only way to be sure would be to test [2017-9-06. : 9:14 pm]  Wing Zero -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: jjf28 gj. http://i.imgur.com/KMLUtbA.png But seriously, don't die please. I saw this under the image you linked and was so confused.[2017-9-06. : 8:36 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: pulling more to the right... https://twitter.com/Met_mdclark/status/905381172003438592 but I'm still prolly leaving gj. http://i.imgur.com/KMLUtbA.png But seriously, don't die please. [2017-9-06. : 8:10 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: NudeRaider if a player leaves the ghost player will retain his alliance status Are you certain? I seem to remember that they are attack anyone, regardless of alliances. Altough maybe *you* still see them as friendlies?[2017-9-06. : 5:58 pm] Neiv -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: are interceptors in hangar visible? Good point. They are not[2017-9-06. : 5:49 pm] readabook -- actually I guess allied would still work, it's fair for their allies to take their stuff for free[2017-9-06. : 5:49 pm] readabook -- well that could be a problem but for the opposite reason, I want them to be hostile to everyone, what if they were allied b4[2017-9-06. : 5:48 pm] jjf28 -- it's a problem when you, say, try to revive someones units who was banned for BSing[2017-9-06. : 5:48 pm] jjf28 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: To give units to such a slot you need to give to distinct player numbers (e.g. P1) as opposed to player groups (e.g. Current Player). Such a player can't run triggers, I'm not sure how much use it is to you. Also units given to such "ghost players" just act on their basic unit ai. They are unallied to everyone. I think they do have vision (P9+ don't) but you should test that. if a player leaves the ghost player will retain his alliance status[2017-9-06. : 5:39 pm] readabook -- What I'm going for is since it's a diplo map, if anyone leaves I don't want their cities to be free for the taking, the comp still fights back, I don't need them to run triggers, just for their units to fight back[2017-9-06. : 5:37 pm] Broflamingo -- CorboCorbo shouted: Pr0nogo Pr0nogo you live a sad life. I have never seen you not complain about anything. You probably complain about breathing, how do you live with yourself, seriously? Facts.[2017-9-06. : 5:37 pm] NudeRaider -- To give units to such a slot you need to give to distinct player numbers (e.g. P1) as opposed to player groups (e.g. Current Player). Such a player can't run triggers, I'm not sure how much use it is to you. Also units given to such "ghost players" just act on their basic unit ai. They are unallied to everyone. I think they do have vision (P9+ don't) but you should test that.[2017-9-06. : 5:34 pm] NudeRaider -- For sc it doesn't matter if a slot is orignally empty, has a player that left or got defeated. It also doesn't matter if it was a human or computer. I haven't tested yet, but I would also imagine it wouldn't even matter when the slot was set disabled to begin with.[2017-9-06. : 5:23 pm] readabook -- Would it work to give units to a player that doesn't exist? Diplo maps usually have 7 human 1 comp. Could I have 8 human but if a human player leaves give p12 units back to his slot and have comp control them? I know it works if the slot is empty to begin with but does it work a second time if it was originally human filled then left? I know I should test these things myself but this one has a human element that I can't replicate with comps.[2017-9-06. : 4:30 pm] Neiv -- Okay, queen also becomes hidden for a short while when it infests a CC[2017-9-06. : 4:29 pm] Neiv -- I think loading the unit is only way to make it hidden after it's been created.[2017-9-06. : 4:29 pm] Neiv -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Neiv "visible"? To whom? Do vision mechanics play a part? What about fog of war and cloaked but not detected? Or is it "visible to the engine" as in the engine knows the unit is there and would draw its sprite if anyone could/can see it? Become visible as in "unit was created or unloaded". Cloaked/burrowed/fogged/etc units are still "visible". Technically trained units "exist" but are not "visible" while they are being trained. And units which morphed from larva became "visible" when the larva spawned, not when the unit was completed.[2017-9-06. : 3:49 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: several playtests showed one set of units consistently landing more hits than the other This is interesting for spawning maps like sand castle wars or desert strike where weapon sprite limit often causes problems. When the triggers for one side fire first because they all belong to one computer and the units for the other side are created later for another computer player, then the first side is as a disadvantage because attack priority for the side that created last is higher.[2017-9-06. : 3:42 pm] NudeRaider -- NeivNeiv shouted: Yeah, the unit which became visible last gets to do their actions first each frame "visible"? To whom? Do vision mechanics play a part? What about fog of war and cloaked but not detected? Or is it "visible to the engine" as in the engine knows the unit is there and would draw its sprite if anyone could/can see it?[2017-9-06. : 3:40 pm] Wing Zero -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: jjf28 It better not wreck tampa, gonna be there in a few weeks ;( Yeah Tampa is pretty much the only city in that state that I can tolerate[2017-9-06. : 3:02 pm] Corbo -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: though I don't know how long the hurricane season lasts or anything, especially since, being hundreds of miles inland and thousands of feet above sea level, I've never had to worry about them xD august - november[2017-9-06. : 2:50 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: Suicidal Insanity I live just outside Tampa, though not for the next couple weeks I'll be in tampa end of october / start of november[2017-9-06. : 2:22 pm] jjf28 -- Suicidal InsanitySuicidal Insanity shouted: jjf28 It better not wreck tampa, gonna be there in a few weeks ;( I live just outside Tampa, though not for the next couple weeks[2017-9-06. : 2:14 pm]  O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- though I don't know how long the hurricane season lasts or anything, especially since, being hundreds of miles inland and thousands of feet above sea level, I've never had to worry about them xD[2017-9-06. : 12:23 pm] Suicidal Insanity -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: pulling more to the right... https://twitter.com/Met_mdclark/status/905381172003438592 but I'm still prolly leaving It better not wreck tampa, gonna be there in a few weeks ;([2017-9-06. : 11:18 am] jjf28 -- pulling more to the right... https://twitter.com/Met_mdclark/status/905381172003438592 but I'm still prolly leaving[2017-9-06. : 10:59 am] jjf28 -- several playtests showed one set of units consistently landing more hits than the other[2017-9-06. : 10:58 am] jjf28 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: oh, so the attack priority changes? Interesting. How exactly does that work? Like if at any given frame more than 1 units are trying to get a shot in there's a sequence in which they will fire? Is it unit ID? I can confirm it's not random, just can't confirm how it works [2017-9-06. : 8:27 am] Corbo -- Also i stopped caring about them disregarding actual facts for the sake of story[2017-9-06. : 8:27 am] Corbo -- The accents were all pretty bad through s1 and that ruined it for me. The fact that pablo had less lines and they seemed to realise that hiring native english speakers that learned spanish was a bad thing made s2 more enjoyable for me[2017-9-06. : 8:24 am] Corbo -- From sc to sc2 to everysingle tv show there is and... whatever else we talk about in the shoutbox[2017-9-06. : 8:24 am] Pr0nogo -- just because i have a gripe with something doesn't mean i don't enjoy it, or what came before the source of the complaint[2017-9-06. : 8:23 am] Corbo -- I know people have different tastes it is just that you seem to have a complain about every single thing[2017-9-06. : 8:19 am] Pr0nogo -- readabookreadabook shouted: I just want to say, I love the pronogo avatar picture it's a childhood photo of my father[2017-9-06. : 8:18 am] Pr0nogo -- people who know me personally quickly come to realize that i'm genuinely happy, and that any criticisms I have of anything tend to be on the fair side[2017-9-06. : 8:17 am] Pr0nogo -- assuming you aren't trolling, just because someone has different tastes than you do doesn't mean they are perpetually unhappy[2017-9-06. : 7:06 am] Corbo -- Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: Corbo which season was it that opened with that completely nonsensical part that had the main bad guy defeat the cops by looking at them? Pr0nogoPr0nogo shouted: whatever that one was, i couldn't watch it after that you live a sad life. I have never seen you not complain about anything. You probably complain about breathing, how do you live with yourself, seriously?[2017-9-06. : 7:00 am] Neiv -- (And units hidden in bunkers get their turn after every visible unit has acted)[2017-9-06. : 6:55 am] Neiv -- Yeah, the unit which became visible last gets to do their actions first each frame[2017-9-06. : 6:54 am] NudeRaider -- oh, so the attack priority changes? Interesting. How exactly does that work? Like if at any given frame more than 1 units are trying to get a shot in there's a sequence in which they will fire? Is it unit ID?[2017-9-06. : 6:53 am] Neiv -- And obviously the best thing about this all is that scv/probe mining animations also count towards the 100 bullet limit[2017-9-06. : 6:51 am] Neiv -- Unloading actually does help; The order units attack in depends on the order they became visible/clickable - from either being created or unloaded.[2017-9-06. : 6:45 am] NudeRaider -- readabookreadabook shouted: well that's still lag in effect because 80/100 shots still get fired, the units that exceed that will have to take turns shooting which slows down overall shot output no, the shot isn't lagging behind, or you firerate is slowed. You are just denied your shot. It even registers right on time. Look at goliaths, for example: They have an attack animation where the unit gets lit up from muzzle flash. You see the muzzle flash, but on a normal hit at the same time you would see bullet impact sparks at your target. But when it hit sprite limit you only see the muzzle flash, not the bullet impact, because that's a sprite that is separate from the unit.[2017-9-06. : 6:38 am] NudeRaider -- readabookreadabook shouted: the two questions are, will valks present massively increase the chance that 100 is reached, and if it is reached, do valks have a super low priority to where they don't shoot at all or do they still get a turn albeit very slow yes, because NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: oh and no separate pool. Valks are just cut off earlier, because one volley creates like 20 sprites. no, like I said: NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: oh and no separate pool. Valks are just cut off earlier, because one volley creates like 20 sprites. I think generally you're overthinking it. There is no priority, turns, refreshing or any other hidden mechanic to it. All there is is "if there's already 100 (80 for valks) shots (or other animations that are not part of the idle unit) in the air, andyou're trying to shoot, you won't. But your weapon cooldown activates." This is why units with low cooldowns, like marines, still fire a lot more often (they are just trying to shoot more often) than ones with long cooldowns. And it's also why you're seeing units dropping out of transports shoot more often: They getting another attack attempt. Not sure if loading and unloading would decrease weapon cooldown (which would increase your rate of fire) though.[2017-9-06. : 5:59 am] readabook -- the two questions are, will valks present massively increase the chance that 100 is reached, and if it is reached, do valks have a super low priority to where they don't shoot at all or do they still get a turn albeit very slow[2017-9-06. : 5:57 am] readabook -- there are a bunch of maps where it's a thing to use dropships to "refresh" units to give them priority when limited, I've empirically noticed refreshing does work, little tricks like that are the context of what I'm asking[2017-9-06. : 5:56 am] readabook -- well that's still lag in effect because 80/100 shots still get fired, the units that exceed that will have to take turns shooting which slows down overall shot output[2017-9-06. : 5:48 am] NudeRaider -- oh and no separate pool. Valks are just cut off earlier, because one volley creates like 20 sprites.[2017-9-06. : 5:44 am] NudeRaider -- readabookreadabook shouted: damn so if I want to avoid firelag I should cut out valks from map entirely? "firelag"  Lag is when commands are processed delayed. So pleeeease call it what is: Weapon sprite limit. readabookreadabook shouted: hmm I just thought of something else though, the other units just slow down at 100 this I know, does valk slow down at 80 or stop entirely? if it only slows down, it would be a great way to purposeful exploit firelag So no, nothing is slowed down. Just when there already exist 80 weapon sprites ("shots flying") sc won't let valks shoot anymore. 100 for other units. |
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