Staredit Network > Forums > General StarCraft > Topic: hyper triggers
hyper triggers
Aug 13 2012, 12:58 am
By: iCCup.xboi209  

Aug 13 2012, 12:58 am iCCup.xboi209 Post #1



How did someone find its existence?



None.

Aug 13 2012, 1:03 am lil-Inferno Post #2

Just here for the pie

I'm guessing a combination of technical knowledge and a bit of luck.




Aug 13 2012, 4:21 am Roy Post #3

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

I would have discovered them on my own if someone else hadn't. I'm fairly confident any mapping enthusiast would have discovered them independently.

It's all about observations.

What happens when you preserve a trigger? Well, the trigger runs, then after about a 2-second delay, it repeats. Pretty basic stuff. But after a while, when you're adding more triggers to your map, you'll notice the delay on your preserve triggers become inconsistent; sometimes they're fast, and sometimes they're slow. Is it changing because you have more triggers? Making a bunch of Create/Kill Unit triggers doesn't seem to affect it, so that can't be the answer. What trigger(s) did you add that caused this? You can start deleting triggers until the inconsistency goes away, and then look at the trigger(s) you deleted to see what they contained that might influence the delay. Well, the "Wait" action looks mighty suspicious right now.

If you notice that your preserved triggers run faster when you have a trigger with waits executing, it should get you to ask questions about why that is. If you decrease the amount of time on the waits for that trigger, the other triggers also speed up. So, what if we have a trigger that just spams Wait 0? Well, all the other triggers run insanely fast! But there's a problem here: they only do it for a short while, and then there's the regular long delay. Well, how many times to they run quickly before the delay? In the case of one hyper trigger, you could count it out to be up to 63 times, or the number of waits you used. Naturally, if you want the effect to last longer, you would just copy that trigger. But how many waits do you need?

From here, assuming you don't already know a lot on trigger execution, you could copy the trigger once and see how much more time it provides you. I would have probably expected it to only double, since we're doubling the waits, but what actually happens is quite different: we have the first trigger run 63 times and the second trigger executes one of its waits, but then the first trigger starts over again. From this, we can assert that the amount of time given to us is multiplicative. Well, copying the trigger four times would give us 15752961 trigger cycles before a long pause. Assuming about 12 cycles per second, this would give us a little more than 364 hours (about 15 days) before all those triggers would cycle through and we'd get our long delay again.

That's how I would have discovered them, at least; I imagine the actual discovery was through a similar process.




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[2026-6-23. : 3:29 am]
DarkenedFantasies -- Probably just didn't care. For example, at some point before release, they've updated the graphics of some of the Protoss buildings (Forge, CyberCore, Citadel, Observatory, Arbiter Tribunal), but instead of properly re-rendering them with edited 3D models, they did crappy copy-paste jobs on the rendered graphics.
[2026-6-22. : 8:35 pm]
Ultraviolet -- :wob:
[2026-6-21. : 11:38 pm]
Symmetry -- :wob:
[2026-6-21. : 4:56 am]
Ultraviolet -- I suppose we'll likely never know, but my guess would be that they already saw it operating successfully and there was no monetary incentive to finish the original work. And the dev cycle in old school Blizzard was so hectic, it's possible it just got forgotten about after the original game got released. Plus there's an element of existing MPQ files that were packaged with the original discs becoming outdated if they updated it. And it's not like they remade the original MPQs, they just made new ones for BW specifically
[2026-6-21. : 4:26 am]
Oh_Man -- so that makes me think maybe the theory they are unfinished is not true and its a deliberate design decision, coz why not finish them wen ur making brood war?
[2026-6-21. : 4:25 am]
Oh_Man -- the thing is thos buildings are from classic. that means they went ahead and made brood war without ever finishing the 'unfinished' buildings
[2026-6-20. : 6:15 pm]
Ultraviolet -- Yeah he's talked about a lot of that stuff in his casts before. It seems plausible. Especially knowing how Blizzard of yesteryear operated.
[2026-6-20. : 3:47 pm]
NudeRaider -- to clarify: couldn't recall the behavior for every single Protoss building but I was aware the disparity exists.
[2026-6-20. : 3:43 pm]
NudeRaider -- Contained nothing new for me. Didn't know all building's behavior, but very much all unit's. Also Terran balance whine - also nothing new :lol:
[2026-6-19. : 9:57 am]
Oh_Man -- makes me wonder if SEN knows anything about the topic
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