Gragas: He was untouchable with SV+Innervating+Passive+Rage, while still dealing good damage.

Udyr: Same kind of thing, except he jungled also, and did more damage. Note that he got buffed in the big picture.

Morde: I really didn't think he was that good at first, but (and i have NO IDEA how this happens) when he can tank a full team for 10 seconds and kill two-three people, and kill 2-3 if not focused, something is wrong.

Sunfire: I have almost no idea why this happened, but it wasn't a big deal to anyone except garen, who could stack them half the time to become a walking tank with a smaller defile aura.

Banshees: Actually had to check notes to see how this got nerfed. They're all small nerfs, but even with them it still is the item to go to for MR most of the time, and that passive is still one of the best things in the game overall.

SV : This got buffed, costs 75 less gives 50 more HP.

Wards: Now they can't be defended nearly as easily, which was actually really annoying when they had a ton of hp
The item changes are particularly annoying. I've only played one game since but I can already tell that it hit Mordekaiser's early game heavily. I'd be fine with the ward changes if they kept the duration to gold cost the same (down to 60 gold). It was already hard enough to get teammates to contribute to warding. The point of most tanky DPS


It does not take skill to avoid a stun with flash and proceed to kill someone because their only cc was wasted on a summoner spell, or to get away and hide at tower if you would lose the fight. See: Ionia VS Noxus: the first time Sion ganked.


Decreases the value of jungling early, which was important, and makes it so if you have a good jungler your duo lanes wont be the same level as the solo, which would be op.


A good Urgot can do well now.
Almost noone knows his niche, although I don't doubt it would take long for one good player to show the community.



I'm beginning to question how often and how much of the forums you guys read. Phreak said they changed PD because it was a false choice. People were getting it and they were losing out on damage, while the dodge wasn't really helping them at all. Still will be as rarely gotten, but now for better reasons.

[/quote]

Pot nerfs were for everyone, it was pretty much 'I have an advantage now I can't lose' sort of thing. But yeah, it's also meant to make melee carries more viable because of better steriods.

Lastly: I'd love to respond to half the posts on this page, but this one makes the most sense. Also I DO plan on being active now, SEN. However the lack of me having SC2(And a comp that can run it) will mean all the stuff i say/do about SC will be theoretical, and as such will also be minimal.

Quote from Neki

Spirit Visage by itself is only strong on Mundo. [snip] Once again, it is relegated to a purely Mundo item.

Save Vlad.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 15 2010, 5:58 am by poison_us.

Just did the math. This change is hardly a nerf to his early game. In fact, by lvl 2 of Judgement, because of his base stats, he's going to be doing even more damage than he was before the patch. The only change is -10 dmg (Which he could easily get back by getting the +10 AD item, due to it now having a lot more scaling) to his lvl 1 Judgement. Overall, Garen was barely nerfed in 1 small corner of an area and buffed the rest.

Just because Phreak says that PD was a newb trap doesn't justify completely removing the only dodge item in the game besides Tabi. He says there will be new dodge items to compensate, but otherwise, phantom danacer was still a nice supplemental luxury item. If people choose to be dumb and rush PD first, that doesn't mean it should affect all the other players who got PD reasonably, it's a stupid reason to re-itemize an item. Completely removing an item is also ridiculous. Locket has existed for awhile, and only now, they deem it to be unfixable? If they remove popping of projectiles of flash, they should just remove the whole spell. They either keep intact or go all the way and remove it, I don't want none of this half crap. The ability to pop projectiles added skill to using flash besides "herp derp you can't gank or get me because I flashed over a wall."

Quote from name:Artanis186

Just did the math. This change is hardly a nerf to his early game. In fact, by lvl 2 of Judgement, because of his base stats, he's going to be doing even more damage than he was before the patch. The only change is -10 dmg (Which he could easily get back by getting the +10 AD item, due to it now having a lot more scaling) to his lvl 1 Judgement. Overall, Garen was barely nerfed in 1 small corner of an area and buffed the rest.

Quote from poison_us

Quote from Neki

Garen got nerfed, don't understand. Especially with the Sunfire nerf.

Because he totally needed the better early game damage (for a decrease of only 10 at level 5? bitch please), better damage %, and whatever else got buffed.

Thank you. I didn't need to do math to see it, but it's cool that someone else cares enough to figure it out. They're reworking him to be more of a pain in the ass, not less.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=393268

The only one it was 'too strong' on was Mundo, like Neki said. It had good synergy with Locket but the combination was way overblown. Spirit Visage only worked on a few heroes but now its only worthwhile on heroes like Mundo where the same mechanic is still so broken the 300 gold is negligible. Whatever you're complaining about (your analogy is lost on me) is unaffected and all that has happened here is a impediment to wider build viability on several heroes. There are so many reduced healing effects anyway. This change was especially unneeded since Locket is gone.


Gragas: He was hard to take down if he went his full tank build late game but dealing low damage. Mid game he was not unkillable but dealt decent damage. Where Gragas really shined was early game. Also remember that this annoys me because I play these heroes often, not because they're totally unwarranted.
Udyr: Udyr was considered fine to slightly underpowered until people started losing their minds about locket and SV. The whole thing was grossly exaggerated. One Banshees Veil and Udyr can't do a thing to you. He really got under scrutiny because of the widely publicized Ionia vs Noxus game. He was only unkillable because they massively outplayed Noxus and fed him. Any tank thats level 18 while the enemies are all level 12 is going to be indestructible and deal noticeable damage. I really can't say how his single target damage and game-style has shifted with the Tiger stance changes until I really play him, but his jungling and AoE was definitively nerfed.
Morde: Clearly you have delusions about how much damage Morde can deal when going strictly tank. Clearly no one versing him knew how to play.
Sunfire: 700 for the passive was already pushing it. 800 is too much. I'm fine with it being Unique.
Banshees: I said the changes annoyed me, since I frequently tank, not that they were devastating- Banshees didn't need this. You'd be surprised how often 75 health makes the difference. This change also severely decreases the instances it can be viable on heroes that don't use mana.
Spirit Visage: You're wrong, read again. The overall cost has been increased by 300 gold.
Wards: I don't care about the health reduction, I support that. What I don't care for is a 30% decrease in duration, especially while the gold cost remains the same.

You're right, it isn't hard to time the projectile pop in that instance, though I would argue that it is hard for someone who isn't very dexterous. There are instances where it does take sheer awesome reflexes though, and plenty more where reflexes aren't enough without being able to predict what the enemy will and can do.

It isn't about that though. Being able to pop projectiles, apart from execution, can separate the skilled an unskilled in terms of what they can pull off and accomplish. I can't tell you the number of times I've successfully tower dived at low health, knowing I could take two tower hits and pop the third, which would give me just enough time to finish off the kill.

I can also Guarantee you that he wouldn't've been out that far to be able to get ganked anyway, had he not taken into account his flash and ability to pop the stun. People extend according to their capacity to do so safely. In general flash creates more opportunities for people to mess up.

Thats what I described, that Phantom Dancer had too great of an alternative cost, and that decreasing the cost even if you're losing out in a stat that can be worth the cost was a step in the right direction. Dodge is a multiplier, for heroes like Yi with low health, this really isn't doing much for you. Where the change is noticeable, however, is on someone like Mundo, where with a high health and apparent health (especially because of the not uncommon Warmogs on him and because of his massive regen) the dodge could actually be put to good use. As far as Jax goes, it wasn't necessarily a bad item for him, but he really didn't need more dodge than his ability passive, ninja tabi and dodge runes could give him.

Ranged carries made the best use of them, and made the 'carry' part of their role go overboard. But, yes it does affect all of them. Blue pot was not hit as hard as the others, and for good reasons too, since it wasn't nearly as good and didn't have the synergy that red/green had. I support the elixir changes.
The effects are multiplicative though: Damage, AS, Crit. A pot it the hands of someone better equipped is going to get more out of it than in the hands of the guys lagging behind. I can't see how these changes are supposed to fix that except by making the disparity less dramatic.

You need to rethink this. Apparently you've never heard of someone who realized he was wrong as he clicked submit, but's still too lazy to recant.

Flat CDR

or

CDR/lvl runes?

I use Visage a lot on GP. Its also incredibly useful on Swain.

Also I adore this patch. Someone tried to flash out of my Parrrley and it hit them, crit them, and killed them for First Blood

I was satisfied.

Flat. They even out at level 13 and at level 18 (for the CDR/lvl) you only have .25% more per rune. Especially for the characters who you play, because they all have good lane harassing abilities and use their abilities a lot early game.

(Btw my vote goes to Galio/Irelia over Malzahar)

Maybe I should get all 3!?

.25*9=2.25%. Not worth it, imo, especially when you can buy CD redux items.

Yesterday I played a game where I went 10/4/19 as Sona. Second in kills by 3-4, first in assists and least deaths.<3 Sona

What is best way to get armor pen? I'm gonna buy armor pen quints and reds, but then should I also get last whisperer in game? Or does my +25 armor pen runes totally nullify the bonuses from having an extra 40% armor pen?

Percentage based armor penetration helps a lot more if the enemy team has a lot of armor resistance, in some cases you are just fine with those runes, in other cases a black cleaver or last whisper absolutely rapes.

Quote from OlimarandLouie

Quote from name:Raccoon

What is best way to get armor pen? I'm gonna buy armor pen quints and reds, but then should I also get last whisperer in game? Or does my +25 armor pen runes totally nullify the bonuses from having an extra 40% armor pen?

Percentage based armor penetration helps a lot more if the enemy team has a lot of armor resistance, in some cases you are just fine with those runes, in other cases a black cleaver or last whisper absolutely rapes.

I've never seen a case where Black Cleaver doesn't rape.

What do you think a build would be like that stacks every armor penetration and armor reduction item along with armor penetration runes? Hmm, that would include Black Cleaver, Stark's Ferver, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Last Whisper, and Sword of the Divine (not necessarily in that order). Just don't forget to activate the effects of Youmuu's Ghostblade and Sword of the Divine when entering battle. Considering that Last Whisper adds some more damage instead of attack speed now, that build would have more damage items than it used to.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Dec 17 2010, 1:02 am by ShadowFlare.

Is manamune cost efficient on ability spamming DPS's? (Miss Fortune?)

I've always seen people say no to manamune, and haven't ever seen a reason to use it over other items, except perhaps in a very few situations.