If you have a lot more AP than your bonus damage, then your bonus damage does not increase your damage to towers. To your base damage, it either adds your bonus damage or a certain percent of your AP (something like 30% or 40%, but I don't remember the exact number) when attacking towers, whichever is greater.

I use Lich Bane on every AP champ I play mostly for towers. I was in a game as Karthus a couple nights ago, and with something like 600 AP and a Lich Bane, I was hitting towers for about 800 every 2 seconds (or whatever the Lich Bane CD is). I don't think I've ever used a Manamune over a Lich Bane, but I guess it also depends on how low the CDs are for your abilities.

Quote from ShadowFlare

If you have a lot more AP than your bonus damage, then your bonus damage does not increase your damage to towers. To your base damage, it either adds your bonus damage or a certain percent of your AP (something like 30% or 40%, but I don't remember the exact number) when attacking towers, whichever is greater.

It does damage based off of 100% of your attack or 40% of your AP, then applies the tower's resistances. It does not add the AP to damage, it's either one or the other.

It's been a while since I had seen it; I didn't remember exactly what it said. I might be confusing it with some ability.

Ah, found it:


Or was that changed by a later patch?

edit:

Just looked at all newer patch notes than that - unchanged.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 2 2011, 6:13 pm by ShadowFlare.

Quote from ShadowFlare

Ah, found it:

Quote

Champions will now use the higher of their bonus attack damage or 40% of their ability power when dealing bonus damage to towers

Or was that changed by a later patch?

So it adds the greater between those two of 40% AP and bonus damage to your base damage. My bad, I thought that it was 40% AP or 100% total attack damage.

So if your AP is at least 2.5 times your bonus damage, your bonus damage is not counting toward your damage to turrets. I'm not sure whether this does or does not apply to inhibitors or the nexus. I think it might not. If you are using a lich bane, I'm not sure how that factors in.

Quote from ShadowFlare

So if your AP is at least 2.5 times your bonus damage, your bonus damage is not counting toward your damage to turrets. I'm not sure whether this does or does not apply to inhibitors or the nexus. I think it might not. If you are using a lich bane, I'm not sure how that factors in.

Lich Bane adds %AP to your next attack. I don't think it matters if the tower is taking it off of AP or AD. In fact, it may be like Shen's passive in that it does his regular damage, then adds the magic damage later for the separate resistance offered by the tower.

Lich Bane + 800 AP = 1/6 of Turret HP gone.

Ryze's CD's are ridiculously low, so the Manamune allows him to get the 1000 stacks for mana very quick (4 minutes if you cast and attack constantly, this includes the CD for the effect). I typically don't have more than like 50-75 AP as Ryze now in any game, unless I decide to build an Archangel as my last item. I'm gonna try the Lich Bane the next time I play him.

On a side note I had a Shen in one game tell me my build was crap, and then at the end of the game was like "Oh damn, you hit kinda hard with that Manamune" LOL I went 17/2 that game btw. Love the new Ryze

To be honest, I agree with you and have done it in a few games. I prefer stacking my Mana and Defense first though, Frozen Heart and Rod of Ages are great. I rarely even upgrade my Tear.

At that level of AP, I suppose it would indeed be giving you bonus damage to towers, since it would be giving you more bonus damage than 40% of your AP.

Sometimes I do get Frozen Heart and Banshee's first, but typically I rush Manamune and just hang in the back of team fights and rape without getting touched.


Mhm, makes pushing towers so much easier with Ryze. I've had a few games where I had more damage on my auto attacks than our carries. how sad is that?

I think I'm missing something, but I still don't quite get how Manamune would be better than Lich Bane. Say you have 4000 mana and a Manamune, that just increases your damage by 80. If you have any AP over 80 and a Lich Bane, your damage will be increased by 80+ every 2 seconds (if you have quick enough abilities to activate every 2 seconds). With an extra 1000 mana, your damage only goes up by another 20 whereas another 80 AP will bring you another 80 damage. What am I missing?

Ryze has a normal attack speed of 1.523 per second, and none of his abilities scale off of AP (it's all AD), so he will do phenomenally better with Manamune.[/sarcasm]

AP still affects his abilities, just at a lower amount than before, and as far as I can tell, his base attack speed is half of that.

EDIT:
And I do understand the importance of mana to Ryze, but the idea of an AD Ryze is still new to me. So is that a common thing now?

Yeah, it's for the AD on towers and the burst on champs. It's probably a good build, but it's still pretty bad compared to what he could do. Also:

Quote from poison_us

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[color=#598D2B]Ryze has a normal attack speed of 1.523 per second, and none of his abilities scale off of AP (it's all AD), so he will do phenomenally better with Manamune.[color=transparent][/sarcasm][/color][/color]

I didn't see "(Its all AD)" when you posted that.

If it's more about attacking towers and burst on heroes, though, then Lich Bane seems waaaaaaay more powerful to me. You could easily take out 1/5 of a tower's health every 2 seconds with enough AP, or after one hit with a spell, shoot an attack on an enemy champ and hit them for a crapton of damage.

Ryze is possibly the best ranged carry in the game. He is a ranged carry with a stun. Probably the most OP champ in the game atm. Have you seen LoL forums? "OMFG THE NEW RYZE IS OP AS SHIT." It's fucking gay how fucking well he does when he stomps. If I ever quit LoL its gonna be cause this new Ryze is the most OP shit ever. 2 ranged attacks I'm dead. Can't do shit. I run up to him. I get stunned. I run from behind him. I get stunned. I jump down from the trees. I get stunned. Why the fuck would riot give a ranged carry a FREAKING STUN/HOLD?!