Source: http://us.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 14 2010, 7:43 pm by DevliN. Reason: Fixed bug that removes " and ' when I edit.

Wow, why did they have to nerf void rays so bad? When am I ever going to use void rays now? Their level 2 beam dps has been more than halved. Now Vikings just rape everything in the air. Seriously, what is the niche of the Void Ray now? Before it used to melt through buildings, but with this new patch, it looks like it'd be half as effective. The supply depot before barracks is still weird but I can live with it I guess, just removes early cheese. I don't know how I feel about basically nerfing P in PvZ and PvT though, can't feedback corruptors or Thors now which is kinda crummy. The only thing that is good you can feedback PDD now and medivacs are slower I guess.

EDIT: Phoenix still rocks, that's how I beat Cecil once.


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 14 2010, 8:21 pm by Neki.

Well, there goes Protoss' one good air unit. Never gonna tech air. Ever. :\

Well, I actually agree with the changes. The first stage just plain sucks, so now it's slightly better. The second stage is the stage that has the least amount of time spent on it, so it doesn't even matter. Really, if you have a void ray, it will almost always be in the first or third stage, since the second one is just an intermediary transition. Late game void rays were like super kick-ass because they could chase anything down with flux vanes, and that just seemed a bit too cost effective. I'm guessing the speed change was significantly reduced to a value so that void rays retreat easier, although can't chase anything in the game and keep 100% charge for five straight minutes.

I am however sad you can't feedback thors. I don't know how I feel about that, but, I did love to feedback them. I also loved feedbacking like 8 corrupters all at once because their energy was so high, then proceeding to win with like 5 collosus. I'm fairly sure that cooldowns were added because feedback just raped corrupters, and zerg in my eyes needed this particular buff. Corrupters were pretty much useless late game due to templar, and thors were much less effective late game for the same reason. One thing to note though- a void ray absolutely will slaughter a single thor.

Cecil... they removed the 3rd stage from void ray a while ago. It has two stages. Level 1 is essentially unchanged, but level 2 is half as effective against heavy targets. Seriously, I would be for it doing maybe 2/3 of its current damage, but reducing it so across-the-board and so completely...

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

The problem wasn't in the void ray itself, but the other races not really having an answer to it when used as a tech rush.

Yeah, there's no third stage, unless I'm reading the patch notes wrong, they basically just nerfed the damage of the armored bonus by half, which is the most important part to be honest, it's what makes the void ray so effective as building/heavy unit killer.

Does this mean it does less damage to armored in phase 1 than regular units?
EDIT: Cecil, you really need to not take out the plus out of the equations. Blizzard is weird with how they write damage, they either write bonus damage to armor type or they write the damage it does to a specific armor type overall. Given this new info, they slightly buffed phase 1, but I don't see why they needed to nerf the second phase, was it really too powerful?

Yeah. They just changed it from an anti-heavy unit to something mixed. Even more ewww.

The void rays' 2nd level was OP in my opinion... 3 fully charged rays raped 8 hydras REEEAL easy.

My Nexi are now stronger

I'm not so sure about that. Hydralisks aren't even armored, meaning each Void Ray is only doing 10 damage to them. With some microing and focus firing, I'm sure 8 hydras can easily rape 3 fully charged void rays, but I'm not so sure. Hydralisks are very strong units, especially for being a light-armor type.

Huh..? There are three stages to the void ray. I just played with them, and there were definitely three stages.

I just read the liquid wikipedia and graphically, there is three stages, but damage-wise, I'm pretty sure it's the same for the first two stages.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Void_Ray

Oh I see..

You had to read to figure that out? o.O

They nerfed the VR too much... What the hell is the point of reducing a units damage and speed? I never even had a problem with void rays in the first place. They are ridiculously expensive units and are pretty fragile for the price.

When I saw the supply depot requirement for the barracks I lol'd my ass off. It was a really stupid move that really doesn't solve much. What they should have done is make the tech lab require a factory, it solves the rush problem without messing with the other builds.

Not being able to feedback Thors sucks. I don't have a problem with it on corruptors but a Thor is a big unit that has a lot of hp and by doing this they are limiting our options even more then we already were. Of course, I'm speaking as a Protoss player so I'm a little biased on this issue.

The Zerg needed the buff. I haven't played many zerg players but I agree that they are a bit too squishy compared to the other races units and buildings.

YES THANK YOU FOR NERFING VOID RAYS. I am officially in love with you Blizzard

Unless he proxied well, or your scouting sucks:

Terran: Few marines, then a viking.
Zerg: A spore crawler and/or two queens.
Protoss: Two stalkers.

I can only agree to Spire and Ultralisk Cavern health buffs, and fungal growth preventing blink.

Another step backwards by Blizzard.

Buffing Zerg Building hitpoints is a no brainer. This should have been considered already during Beta in my opinion.
The number of times I can just take a Reaper suicide squad or warp-in Zealots/Dark Templar to knock out a Hydralisk Den/Spire/Spawning Pool is a joke. The Zerg Creep should slow down enemy + non-zerg units... that'd be about right.

Void Rays are (in my opinion) the only decent air unit that the Protoss have. Carriers... yeah sure... as if this tech-level is reached often enough to count. They (as mentioned above) are fragile. Countered easily by really any focus-firing mass unit - be it, Vikings, Marines, Stalkers or Hydralisks. The damage nerf is slightly too extensive, and in conjunction with the nerfing of Flux Vanes - I don't think Protoss are even going to Tech the upgrade / or use Void Rays all together.

Roaches are still munched by Siege Tanks and Marauders due to their Versus Armor attack bonus. What's +1 range really going to achieve? To succeed with Roaches you need to develop 2 out of 3 of their upgrades (Tunneling Claws, Glial Constitution and Burrow). And even then, your micro has to be pretty speedy to burrow red-hp roaches during an MMM encounter - to which the equivalent Zerg tech-level has no anti air...

Don't even get me started on the Barracks requirement now... So many alternatives, yet the short-sighted people who developed this patch have failed to realize...

Factory required for Tech Lab. This would stop Marauders (and Reapers) getting out onto the field as early as they do - therefore giving the Zerg player who likes Roaches a standing chance. It would also slow down (remarkably) the rate at which a Terran player can tech Stimpacks/Combat Shield/Concussive Shells.

Another alternative would be to increase the Reapers gas cost. Make it 50 minerals + 75 gas. Sure they can still be used to rush-harass, but the players micro skill would have to be a lot hotter to reward him/her for trying this tactic.

Something I really liked (was said elsewhere, cant remember) is that Supply Depot - Lower should require an upgrade from the Engineering Bay. Maybe cost 150 / 150... So at least if a Terran is shitting himself from a 6-pool, he is forced to hide behind his wall instead of use it as a gate. A bit like the Protoss have to do (unless they use a Zealot to block the 1x1 wall-gap). This would confine the Terran and allow the other player a bit of map control (second hatchery, fast expanse etc) which is really what the Zerg has to do to survive. Wall-blocking completely stops early scouts and leaves you vulnerable to what he is concocting behind there, so the economic advantage should balance this out. The Terran player can still 'Lift Off' his Barracks to open his gate... shit, maybe this needs to be researched too? It's a simple fact that Terrans have far too much versatility and therefore dominance in the early to mid-game... using comparatively low tiered units...

The removal of energy from two units (Thor & Corrupter) is just indicative of a Warcraft feature that has limited scope in a Starcraft 2 environment. It'll only be a matter of time until energy is removed from the Nexus and the Command Center - which will force players to be more macro efficient. Instead of realising 'oh shit, my Command Center has 200 energy', time to blast down 2 Mules, a quick Extra Supply and why not see what my enemy is up to at the same time... Imagine if Mule, Extra Supplies and Scan Sweep were all on a shared cool-down. This would force Terran to actually use their head (real time strategy game much?).

All that this patch has done is further limit the early-game options that Terran have. This now forces them to go Supply > Barracks. So, thats basically no early game aggression for Terran. This will only open the doors to more 6-pool rushes, or 'cheese' as the haters call it.

By the way, I am a Random player (Protoss favorite). I hardly ever use Void Rays. Scout + counter. Works every time. But, after this patch, I think I'll be safe with just massing a handful of Blink Stalkers to counter any aggressive Void-play... As Zerg... I don't know, I'll maybe keep beating my opponent silly before he can consider getting Void Rays out... As Terran? Shit. Vikings, Mass Marines + Stim, even Ghosts + Emp knock Void Rays out of the sky... this general 'anti-voidray nerf' is going to weaken them more than necessary.

Ugh.. frustration... why blizzard why?

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 15 2010, 7:31 pm by Cardinal.

Baneling Busts would become a significant issue.