Dude how did he destroy it?

Forced to upgrade spell leveling to be effective (level 2 for speed, level 3 for atk speed), which is not a good thing for a hero like him. It is like hes forcing summoner to be slowed down. If you have rine, mech, or bat he maybe never able to level at all.

Summoner does not need a nerf. Revert him back, you need a team centered around him, and hes not good vs all.

What makes you think I took away the player's spawning pool? You can play summoner exactly the same.

And 7 second heal is more incentive for summoner to use his defiler. DT needs lv4 + 200 mana to get him at base. It happened alot and was never considered broken. Actually, dt players hated the invinc. at temple and said it make summoner broken.

So please, elaborate, what does Speed with lvl2 and atk with lvl3 exactly mean? To be honest only time you should be using defiler is to cap something or hard counter mech. Nothing else. He should not be leaving the base under any other circumstances. With DT and Mech, he cannot leave the base. 7 Second heal is just a terrible idea, I thought you removed it.

It means if you haven't already gotten the upgrade, you get it. You still have the spells, it's just something tacked on when u first level up to that spell.

Good. I will edit my previous posts. Still, why are you implementing 7 second heal?

-Sin abuse
-Rine L4 abuse
-Mech Double L3 abuse
-Spawn abuse

Just off the top of my head, there are other broken set-ups that exploit 7 second heal trigger. Get rid of it.

'sin abuse' was 'sin strat' b4 invincible. And invincible was just put in because going any spawn was impossible with hyper healing, helping summoner was a side effect, not a goal.

The choice for l1 is good, it may not be of any use for healing a bunch of hp, but if you get Irad'd with low hp or even maeled you can be restored from across the map. It has it's benefits.

Temple should still be invince, I don't see a good enough reason for it to have a 7 second heal. Either way I see it with 7 second cooldown just means that when the enemy breaks in you lose. And really if you want the game to end faster just get better closed.ads.

It's really not justifiable to give temple 7 second cooldown for just 1 unit, Sin. I also don't see how it encourages summoner to leave base.. many (pro) players already do that (and noobs as well thinking they know how to play).

Also liked rines l4. Every other mine is invince, good job.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 26 2010, 6:28 pm by Vortex-.

@rine l3 cooldown, it isn't to prevent the ghost doing huge damage as much as preventing the rine having permanent invincibility. It's stronger than warrior l4 in that regard, and costs less.

Any you slice it, it was sin abuse. With hyper healing, you werent supposed to go spawn (and still arent) unless it was sure to finish the oppostion with no or minimal resistance (i.e Pumped LM, MEdic, Reaver Summoner, Sin). Usually spawn is employed to take out someone who is unkillable for a guaranteed base rape.


Articulated post and agree with everything that was said here


Wrong. With l4 and Stun, he still rapes rine. You didnt mention Warriors Auto-attack is the best in game hands down, nobody can auto-attack him pound for pound which is why going armor for him is beneficial. Warrior is one of the few heroes that scales tremondously and never loses usefulness, you ever seen a 30/20/20 atk/armor/shield warrior rampaging? (Note: People will say Sins auto attack is better, but its second because of the speed he attacks and his unit speed overall is why hes a second auto attacker in rank). Mana rine will still lose to mana warrior. With stun and 10ups warrior can auto attack Mutant to death with no HP upgrades, and with M8 rines health debuff, its even more glaring. It doesnt make him invincble at all. And everyone says invincble "Blah blah" in regards to SpecOps L3 so does LM's L1 and it has the potential to be combo'd with L3 for even more damage and invincibility. Its a dodge and damage dealer along the lines of LM's l1, except its an L3. Lets stop exaggerating its power. In regards to it costing less than warriors L4, it doesnt. it will take about 2.5 Snipers for the 20second duration of Warriors L4 which is 20seconds.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 26 2010, 10:19 pm by DoLLe.

That L3 WILL pierce the warriors shield eventually and the invincibility makes the warrior run away so he has to close in again if he wants to attack him. If the rine uses his l3 during the warrior l2 its instant rape for him.

I meant in terms of survivability, not head-to-head warrior. As in, rine could take down a pylon faster than a warrior, and he only needs l3 to do it, not l4 + 2 more mana ups. But if stuns don't affect rine l3, then rine would beat warrior head to head, especially if rine can combo l3 + l1 (I doubt he can, but he can always double l1, and then l3. Even warrior would die to that)

I guess m8 rines lv3 needs some clearing up, so everyone know exactly what it does. They closest thing in the game that it works like is assassin's lv4. While he's in sniper mode for those 4 seconds, he is immune to all damage, unit abilities, AND every single spell in the game except volt Lv2. So basically if unit spells were a game of rock paper scissors, sniper lv3 would be a rocket launcher. It's NOTHING like lm's lv1. The lm can still be cursed, paralysed, disabled, etc. The sniper CAN'T, and lets say volt lv3's the sniper - ofcourse the sniper is unaffected, but the rine doesn't even comeback paralyzed when the sniper goes away. That's not all, Lets say by some miracle DM lv4's even with all the channeling she has to do - guess what? If you're rine you can cast lv3 and STOP the curse while it's already spawning broodlings!
It's fucking OP

+1

-Fix the Dm lv4 turn off when rine switches to l3
-Fix Volt l3 stun so it does stun rine after l3 is over

Keep Sniper Rifle

You forgot to add Dm L2 and L3, Warrior L3, Volt L1, Medic L2, and any spell that i might have missed

Dude if rine didn't have sniper he would be forced to only fight with l4 against dm. I hope none of you forget that spells don't work on SV and mut l4. Sniper is a legit way to dodge/avoid stuns and damage for that short time. Just tweak the spell don't remove it.

That's the plan.

and mut lv4 can still be mael'd, and they can both be killed.

That and they are both l4s, and they both have cooldowns (right?)

yeh those 2 lv4's have like 15 second cool downs