medic's l1 only heals 40hp max, maybe make them heal a bit longer?

I said either or. Maybe there can be an option that lets you pick one or the other.

I'm going to be 100% here, no ass kissing or dishonesty.

Here is a litttle history lesson.

Back when M3 was out, everyone was clamoring for a new TS, you had to choose between MT or M3 which meant Overpowered assims and 50/50 ups by 3rd night,glitching, fanny-pack gay 11+3 rine, or underpowered assims which almost meant nothing. However M3 was the better choice but it still had a slew of errors (war L3 not working on spawn for example).

Moose took up the helm, and admirably did his best on M4,M5,M6,M7 and guess what? They all sucked complete ****, though each was more or less progressively better. He was tinkering of course but again almost all were failures remember the rine with comsat, Or invincible rine, useless bat, or unkillable 150 ulti warrior (lol good times). However Moose finally hit the spot with M8, by coincidence or just sheer genius he hit the magic spot with M8. Granted M8 is not perfect, but its the closest hes ever been and he did one hell of a job, and the terrain rework was definitely needed. I'll repeat it again, even though M8 gets lukewarm reception (Mostly by scrubs) its probably the best TS to come out in a long time, and moose deserves a medal of honor for this.

Go kiss a local moose for this version. Because its great.

M9 just looks like a mess and seems arbitrary. Despite Moose failing on some versions, He finally got it correct on M8 and its sure as hell the most balanced TS to come out. For example, Hydra standalone in 3.4 is pretty garbage. However in M8 he got buffed and is powerful. If you had any sort of skill, you knew Rine was absolute trash in 3.4 here is a quick reason why:

Countered by in 3.4:
Volt,War,Mutant,Medic,Assault,Dark Mage,Mech,Archer (<-Other versions he didnt however in 3.4 hes owned by archer)

Who he counters:
Summoner, Nuke, and maybe Light Mage. (If you say he counters Volt, please refer to YOU ARE NOOB/SCRUB section)

Why he sucked:
L4 got nerfed to uselessness by crying noobs
Any stun landed he dies
Owned by almost half the cast
No DPS outside of auto attacks or defensive maneuver
POWER RINE FOR THE LULZ [/sarcasm]

Point is in M8 he is viable and good, and is can actually be a strong pick instead of a joke pick. While his late game is still not so hot, his Early and Mid is strong as hell. No need to revert him to trash 3.4 days, and this is coming from a guy who doesnt like SpecOps at all. Sniper rifle is not overpowered, again you missing the point SpecOps golden game is during mid and Late, Sniper rifle without insane ups tapers off fast endgame, alowing people to tank it with ease (except for LM but he sucks anyways). Why would you revert him to old SpecOps, diminsh his role even more by making purchasble detection, and in effect slamming another hero (Sin).

Please, revert Summoner back to old summoner, M9 summoner is a joke. Forced spell leveling is gay, and with HP spawn increased makes it even more gay. Typical Forced synergy thats horrible.

Again IF MECH AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT.

Lets face it, M9 is a mess, and doesnt address the fundamental balance problems. Seems like a pet project more than anything else. Like for example, Why nerf medics L1 for what reason? Then nerf her attack? What? Was there a balance issue, that warranted nerfing her l1 for a quick medic that heals 40HP(Thanks to closed.ads for the numbers) and has the potential to feed at anytime. Lets face it, people, its trash. If you see trash say so. How about instead of tinkering with the great new formula that M8 has provided, lets tweak it and perfect it. I will re-iterate again, her new L4 is only 5levels of HPgain (In plain speak its almost nothing), it should heal 5levels of mana (120) and 5 levels of HP, and give her a new L3. I think her New L3 should repel enemy heroes in the vincinity, like a reverse volt L2.

Why mess with medic, when LM needs some much needed Love, again give him a viable ulti instead of that trash reaver barrage. Come on people we really didn't need mech with a wraith or the god awful summoner we have now, or RINE v RINE endgame stalemates, Or purchasble overlords, get your mind correct. Lets focus on the core aspects then add the bells and whistles.

Some Aspects to focus on:
-Reducing storm again
-reducing vult speed cost to 45, and getting rid of Charon booster upgrade altogether
-LM Ultimate rework
-Medic L3/l4 rework/tweak
-Geographic tweaks
-PORT PHANTOM

YOU ARE A NOOB/SCRUB/BADS SECTION
Yes you are noob, now go play power rine and tell your friends how you beat someone 1v3 with power rine.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 22 2010, 6:40 pm by DoLLe.

About the medic thing, im pretty sure he will realize that it's a bad spell and will change it. However, he did say he wouldnt be able to work on it for a while. Also, there is no potential to feed anyone because it has been stated that the medics would be invincible.

He also said that he wasn't going to make any huge changes to mech. His l2 would be made to always spawn behind him so that it wouldn't block. I don't see how he is trying to fix something that isnt broken when hes hardly changing it at all.

And, color #222222 is the best font color ever.

Mech's broke, CAFG fixed it.

Summy needed a nerf, only upping spawn, rine, or mutant could do crap against him. LM's too slow, mech needs feed more than chasing lings, fbat sucks till l3, volt's too slow, etc.

Medic l1's a mistake, stop bawwing about it, CAFG will remove it. L4, if it's only +5 hp lvls, needs a boost. L3 is fine as it is, medic is a support hero, not an opposite-volt.

Purchasable ovie is meh, but it stops the DT camping you were so worried about. Maybe if it were stuck to the temple, it'd be better, but I can't see enough reason for it in the first place.

Storm doesn't need reducing, although if DM l1 gave DM energy as well as an orb, that'd be good. LM would go back to being untouchable if it gets lowered storm, it already has one decent splash feeder and doesn't need two.

Vult speed is fine as it is(60 or whatever), charon boosters could be removed, although mech IS the best antiair unit, and that would lessen its ability to counter fbat.

/Agree to LM ulti rework, no one ever bothers getting it.

Porting phantom? Maybe, that's up to CAFG and perhaps UU.

I smuggled my laptop with me and have been working on m9 this whole time. All heroes are now flawless with the exception of DM lv4(I think). I've finally found a hotspot, so I can sound it out now. I've also added the +1 enemy spawn feature, and done some basic strings.

Maxx, a few of the things you're mad about in this ver, like mech's lv2, is just bad information on your part. I don't know who told you it's wraiths now, but they're wrong.

PMs being sent out. In the meantime, I'd like to know what people want hero selection vision to be. I'm leaning towards making it blind, but a surprising number of you want vision, because you like counter picking. I always pick first and don't counter pick, so I can't appreciate the appeal.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 22 2010, 8:55 pm by ClansAreForGays.

Show vision. Basically because otherwise you get randomized outcomes based on the other team's unknown choice. If you want a random game, you choose random. If you want a solid game, you choose. Pros random in practice matches, but pick in proper games so definitely allow vision.

Okay getting ready to blow this apart. Where to start.

The first, upping spawn against summoner is stupid. Stop saying bad things like this, With 2 swarms stocked, he gg's any spawn ups and you created a monster with access to massive feed in Minerals and levels due to your noobish spawn up. This is compounded even worse if he has teamates. You didnt even mention reavers but you mentioned spawn up first. Seriously, this is bad strategy you are spouting again, stop it. Mutant doesnt counter him, he controls him, its not a counter. Bat controls him, not a counter. War can control him, again not a counter. Rine does counter him, ok you got that right. LM, summoner cannot destroy the temple with him around. Volt is ok-to-bad, a good timed L3 can mean 80mana lost for you while summoner loses a potential 300+ mana. Mech can control his feed, doesnt mean he counters him. You have a couple of units who can control him and has 1hard counter, plus everyone has access to his universal weakness: Reavers. So why does summoner need a nerf again? Mind explaining.

I only brought up the L1 situation again because it wasnt a warranted change. Which supported my original point: m9 has unwarranted changes and isnt fixing the core things first: Balance and a perfect version. Wasn't BAWWWING about it.

The overlord thing? Wow, you revert SpecOps back to old spec ops and make universal detection for everyone and makes him more useless. Even with overlord DT still camps you when your cannons are gone. Glad you see at least its not needed.

Your med comment is wrong. If its only 5 Levels of health, which was done for the sake of balance, then just add her L3 to the new L4 so make it restore 5levels of Health and Mana, it will balance it out. Medics/Priest are able to repel evil forces or forces that harm, it goes with her theme. Why would that be a bad spell? It will also create synergy with other Heroes. I never did agree fully with the FH nerf, because Med has a couple of hard counters (best are: Hydra, Bat, Summoner honorable mention to Volt. And for the LOVE OF GOD DO NOT SAY MUTANT COUNTERS HER.) but I do see some warrant in it. For example there are some teams that will never beat Pre-FH-nerf based teams, they simple don't have the DPS. With this nerf its possible for those teams to possibly win, however doesnt mean it should make her L4 any less powerful, incorporate her L3 into The New L4 so its 5/5levels and give her a brand new L3.

Agreed. Its about time one of my favorite units gets some love. LM needs a buff and ulti rework. Hats off to you on the L3 buff. May I suggest upping his L3 (Goons) base attack. And maybe his base attack?

Vult speed needs to be 45-50. 60 is over the top. And that reminds me, make companion upgrades 45/45.

Reduced storm, makes LM and DM a bit more viable. Ok? Especially for DM because she farms like shit. Yes LM farms like a beast, does it make him good? No.



Not Maxx, but thanks anyways.

Wraith thing, is my bad. I apologize.

Still mirror matches are not needed, and create unnecessary stalemates. The SpecOps thing is a step back, not a step forward. SCV as l3 i think it was mentioned is terrible. Just leave him alone before you turn him back to newbie power rine days again, aka Useless except vs summoner. Why spawn HP increase? Why are you dismantling summoner? Work on Meds L3/L4, not her l1 which was fine. And reducing her attack. Again unwarranted and unnecessary.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 22 2010, 9:41 pm by DoLLe.

By upping spawn, I mean reavers. Rushing hydras can own but isn't normally viable.

Medic l4 is too weak at +5 lvls, and adding mana just changes everything and makes l4 rush useless. L3 push spell still doesn't sound great.

Mech will just be slowed down by 60mins speed, not destroyed.

Dont rush hydras vs summoner ever. You build reavers, you can never up to them. Maybe I'm too big on specifics. Errrmmm....rushing hydras does have merit, one scenario off the top of my head is raping DT with hydras if you have no detection because hes usually unkillable and a nuisance

MAybe you don't understand, cause I am a shitty typer. What I'm saying is give her 5Level mana boost in L4 and 5 level HP boost in L4, (Should probably restore NrG too). It makes it actually decent instead of complete garbage. L3 should be some utility spell, she is not DPS. Repelling enemy heroes has utility and can save allies from death. Or repel Heroes to make an escape.

Honestly, I agree with you. I don't like mech much, but i still think 60 is over the top, i think 50 is solid. I do completely agree with your charon booster removal, wasnt needed.

I didn't say hydra rushing isn't EVER viable, just not NORMALLY viable.

Wait so medic gets 5 levels worth of mana, for a certain amount of time after which it wears off? Still a little confused. A repel would be interesting, but I don't know if it suits the medic a whole lot. Maybe something like teleporting allies to the medic instead? Then it can be used to save allies, so still support. Maybe swap with l4, it'd be OP as a l3.

Sniper Rifle should be put back, scv is useless, it makes rine weak.

Marine's L3 really is too weak at 30 damage alone---I was able to rape 2 bunkers with another rine at no hp/armor upgrades, AND flee from a chasing rine, simply computers love targeting mines. Maybe give the bunker a ton of armor (ike 150?) would help, or another spell.

Only advantage is that it has greater range against canons because of ghosts, lol.

Another bug: Volt's l1 wont work. Scourges dying 0.00 seconds after they spawned.

V5 test report:

Mech bug 1: vulture l2 only spawns vulture when you are moving about

Mech issue 1: vulture with 1 default armor is probably too much----vulture isn't brittle enough to be killed, really.

Map issue 1: overlord in base can be killed for 4exp, definitely a good boost in the beginning, huh. Needs to be invincible!

Bottom Mech l3 in tank form doesn't work

Also, since this is going to be ver. C1, can we have new thread instead of here?

And can rine have sniper?

C1 stuff are just old strings. Keep the bug reports coming.

Finally back for good. Alright so I'm noticing alota hate on the changes, so I'm thinking M9 will just go back to classic m8t. Still, the M8 rine is too good to keep the exactly the same. If I give it back the sniper, I'm giving it some sort of cool down (which moose was already going to do in M9), and mine capping for it will be off the table. I liked medics new lv1 because it made it very hard for noobs to completely wreck a game when they pick her, but this probably got more hate than anything else. By default this will still be medic's lv1, but there will be a switch players can hit when the game starts to have the old lv1 back. I'll make companion tech's both 60, and vult up 50.
Unfortunately scmdraft is glitching on the "create unit with properties" trigger, so worst case scenario spawn hp up won't be a feature.

well I think that's it, anything I miss? Any 3v3 testing going down?

dude, what are you talking about? Don't listen to rumors, only trust things that I've actually typed.

Like 1-2 second cooldown?

2-3. Or no cool down, and make the thing vunerable to spells.

Also: How about med lv3 be semi global and give 50 mana to those not in range, and more to those in range?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 24 2010, 7:13 pm by ClansAreForGays.