Ok, so I was wondering mostly what hardware is the most affordable to build a computer that can run StarCraft2(not at the required level but a little higher performance), and who better to ask than you guys. I'm trying to, and hopefully will be able to build this computer with a budget of 400-500$. Also I will probably be able to get my hands on free ram and a good hardrive so you can factor that out of the cost. Throughout the last week I've been searching on newegg for stuff so I'll post potential hardware up to see if they run together nicely. I'm new at this so any help is useful. Thank you.

GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150471
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139045
PSU: No clue
CPU: No clue
Cooling Unit/Heat Sink: No Clue

A 5450 is not a card for gaming, nor is a 9500GT. These are glorified HD playback cards. They're meant for putting movies on large screens.

You really have no idea what you're doing, so I'll design you something. But please do us both a favor and stick to listening to me, because whoever was advising you before was even more inept than you are.

Edit: Done.
DVD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289
GFX: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102864
HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181
Case, Mobo, RAM, CPU, PSU combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.390691
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023 (One bundled with case is shitty, this is much better.)

That's all you really need. Onboard sound, stock cooling since I doubt you have the skill to overclock anything. Its a good machine, and it'll handle SC2.

$498.51 after tax and ship based on my zipcode. I'm in NJ so you may not have to pay tax.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 15 2010, 12:46 am by Excalibur.

Thank you so much... And yes I am inept when it comes to this

I looked up the PSU that comes with that case and its shittier than I thought.

Go with this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023

Antec, has active PFC, PCI-E connector is standard rather than needing an adapter, and the warranty is probably a lot better.

Brings the price up to $498.51 based on my zipcode. Still under 500$.

I appreciate it Ex.

I know you know what you're doing Ex, but are the other components a bit overkill with that Celeron? I guess he has the option of upgrading the CPU later.

Radeon 4670, 5570, 240, 9600, 8800, 240 and above will run SC2 fine.That leaves PSU, Case, mobo, cpu, gfx. If you want cheap, that's going to run you $300. I can build you one for that price if you want. If you want to spend the whole 500, ex's build is fine. It's also $200 overkill for SC2.That celeron is no slouch. It's essentially the same as a pentium e2500, or whatever the 2000 series with 2.5 GHz is, and only slightly worse than the e5200. Better than my processor by FAR, and I can run SC2 with ease.

If you want some more power, you can switch to a propus/callisto AMD rather than a wolfdale.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 15 2010, 3:43 am by rockz.

I'd drop the 5770 GPU, because it's simply not necessary. I'm running SC2 with no choppiness at all at 1650x1080 on all high settings with a 8800 GT graphics card (I'm upgrading it, but that's more for other games). If you actually want to spend the $500, I'd replace the GPU with something lighter and invest in something else.

Also... peripherals? Do you have a mouse/keyboard? Speakers and monitor?

Additionally, on the processor - I'm no expert, really, but from what I've seen with my own systems is that things like physics in SCII maps can be rather intensive, calculating and recalculating and repositioning and reordering large groups of units every few milliseconds. Again, I might be underestimating how strong processors really are and these calculations may have a minimal effect, but I wouldn't judge how a computer would run a high-level custom map based on melee. And a processor is more useful anyway, because that effects every aspect of your computing experience. If he wants to do something other than gaming, the processor will be doing most of the work.

Also, if he also plans on using the editor extensively, on my 2.5Ghz Quadcore I get some choppiness while adjusting terrain height. Might influence his decision. Unless I'm speaking stupid, of course.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 15 2010, 3:58 am by Centreri.

It's good to hear that the Celerons are no longer crap.

Cent, for a long time people have been overdoing their CPU and slouching on their GPU. When you're gaming its the GPU that matters. That's why the 5770. Its a great card and its a decently balanced system. The only thing he could use more of is RAM and he can always add that in later.

rockz is correct, that Celeron is still a Wolfdale and thus still powerful. It even overclocks pretty high but I'm not sure if the board we selected has options for that, nor do I think Vortex has the capacity to OC.

Finally, the board is of a chipset where he could in theory drop in something as powerful as a Q9550 if he were so inclined. From what I understand he's looking to play SC2 and play it well. This build will do that and does it at a very unique and affordable balance of parts.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 15 2010, 4:25 am by Excalibur.

I agree go big GPU and smaller CPU but intel? really?

I'll whip up a build really quick with what I would do and post it.

[EDIT]
Your ram I'd assume is ddr 2, so thats what I built it around.






The reason I would suggest not going intel, is the celeron that he linked to is on a dead socket, meaning you would need a new motherboard to upgrade the cpu in the future, while the am3 socket is still the active socket for AMD so you could go all the way up to the current hex-core (6 cores instead of 2 or 4) from amd.

You could also drop to this ram if really needed: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231144 and take $40 off the cost. $346, $401, $446, $501 respectively.
Also if your up for it, I'd go with this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066&cm_re=antec_300-_-11-129-066-_-Product for the extra $30 (free shipping with "369FS")

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 20 2010, 12:15 am by JB4times4.

Haha, I'm sure Ex will say something about you suggesting that case.

Ah, JB you must be new. You Antec case types aren't welcome 'round these parts.

Both the cases you suggested are absolute shit. Your build only has such a low price because you dug at the bottom of the barrel for the shittiest, cheapest case money can buy, and that's just appalling. Shitty cases, and Antec cases (which are the same thing by the way) aren't welcome here. Shitty build with thin panels, lack of fans and airflow. You're just saying 'HEY I WANT MY COMPONENTS TO OVERHEAT PLEASE'.

Your changes really don't offer any improvement, tri-cores only exist because of AMDs incompetence, and I don't consider them a viable solution for any realistic build. In real-world situations I would expect the E3300 to preform on par with that tri-core, and if overclocked, absolutely smoke it. And it goes without saying that the E3300 is a better clocker, as the Intels usually are. Here is an example of an E3300 @ 4GHz. Even at 3.5 that tri-core is going to get dominated and after checking, the x3 435 is lucky to get to 3.6GHz, so if we want to talk maximums, there is no doubt in my mind the 4GHz 'Celeron' is going to smoke that 3.6GHz tri-core in real-world performance.

Finally AM3 with DDR2 is like 775 with DDR3: Yes they exist, but they shouldn't. AM3 with DDR2 is as dead as any other option. In the current price range we may be able to find an AM3/DDR3 bundle, but we'd probably have to downgrade the CPU to the new single core Sempron they threw on AM3 as a power saving CPU. And then we'd have to clock that to the ceiling to make it viable. And we've already established our OP doesn't have the capacity to OC. It just isn't a good situation to put ourselves in. So if we're going to go the AMD route we need to get an AM3 DDR3 board which means DDR3 RAM which means more expensive. And in case you missed the title we're going for affordable here.

Look, if we're sticking with DDR2, we're sticking to a dying standard, which sticks us with a limited upgrade optioned build. And in all probability, for this price, you should just replace rather than upgrade it when the time comes. I stand by my original recommendations and request you keep your bargain bin and Antec cases out of here, lest some lesser learned person come in here and think you know what you're doing.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 20 2010, 9:52 am by Excalibur.

Sorry for jumping into that thread, but I always wondered what makes a case a good case.
That means specifically what makes a case have a good air flow? I imagined that a 120mm opening in the front and one at the back should be enough if you have fans there. How important are openings/fans to the top/side? Does top need a fan too?
Does quality matter? Personally, I never had a case that broke and I'm sure I had shitty cases since I always bought the cheapest.
What are thin panels?
And lets not talk about looks and other features that serve no purpose (like doors, sliders and whatnot).

Basically tell me everything I need to judge for myself which cases are good and which are not. And please lets keep brands out of it. I just want to know features.

What makes a good case depends on the purpose. For example, if you want to hear less noise from your computer, an opening in the top is not a good idea if you are going to have the computer on the floor, or in general any extra openings are not beneficial if the intent is to have a quieter system (except in a system with no moving parts, where extra openings may be needed to let heat out but there is no noise to let out either). For a quiet system that does have moving parts, thicker/heavier panels are supposed to help (which generally excludes aluminum cases).

For my system I do have an Antec case, but I bought it as part of an attempt to make my system quieter, not necessarily cooler. It has thicker panels (made of steel) with extra material to help dampen resonating noise, special hard drive mounts to keep the drives from sitting directly on the case, no extra holes where noise can escape, and a less direct path for air at the front to change the direction of some of the noise. I also have my fans on low speeds. It is one of the quieter systems I've had, but I've already gotten used to it so it is still not quiet enough. Sometime I'd like to build a completely silent (or almost completely silent) + lower power system to use for most tasks.

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on May 20 2010, 10:38 am by ShadowFlare.

The case is the main aesthetical part of your PC. Therefore looks are always a factor. I know you wanted to discard that fact, but quite frankly, you can't talk about cases without talking about looks. Its like talking about cars and saying 'Yeah but lets not talk about the body, color, or interior.'

As you know, heat rises. Cases that take advantage of this fact and keep good bottom-front intake to top-back outtake usually have good thermal performance. A single 120mm intake and 120mm outtake are in any heat-heavy system not enough by my standards. And I admit my standards are a little high, however in the summer some people let their ambient room temps get above 70F and that has an effect on your PC temps due to the fans taking in the air in the room. Thus, I always like to imagine 'This build is going to be in a room that is 80F year round, how can I make sure its sufficiently cooled?' to keep the PC safe from the worst-case scenarios, be it in a hot room or in a very air-restricted cabinet in a desk.

It depends what kind of hardware you're packing into it. I personally like side-fans over the GFX because most GFX cards generate the most heat in the system and a lot of them have shitty cooling. In terms of importance: front intake + back outtake > side intake > top outtake.

I doubt you put quality components into said machine. If you're building a Dell-type machine with a shitty mATX board, RAM with no heat spreaders, and integrated GFX, sure, go throw it in a Dell-tier shitcase with one fan.

Panels are the sides of the case, in most cases you take them off when working on the PC. Very few cases have actual doors that open without coming off/taking the whole side off. Thin panels are just that- Thin metal sheets that are of low quality and are very flimsy. They like to bend, warp, and just be crappy.

What about other features like USB headers? Audio jacks? ESata port? There's a lot more to a case than just the cooling:
Cable management, acoustics, connectors (as mentioned above), space for components, weight.

A good case for a gaming machine has at least 4 fans: Front intake, back outtake, side intake, top outtake. Some have two in any of these spots, some have two in all of these spots. Generally speaking, fans should be 120mm or 140mm. No one uses 92mm or 80mm anymore and any fan larger than 140mm that I've seen, moves far too slow in the name of keeping noise down. If I could get a 240mm fan that spins as fast as a 140mm, that'd be great, it'd move a lot more air, and be quieter because its larger. A larger fan can move more air than a smaller one at a lower speed, thus making it quieter.

The case should also have at least 2x USB 2.0, mic and headphone jacks, as well as an ESATA port for good measure.

Finally, it can't be an Antec Hundred series. I know you said no brands, but hear me out:
Antex Hundred series cases are of questionable quality and horrid style. They're the epitome of MORE LEDS MAKES EVERYTHING WORK BETTER!, the mindless mentality that bigger is always better (NV did this and now they're in trouble.), and that as long as you strap enough LEDs onto something it magically becomes quality. Antec does have some nice cases in their Performance One line, I really want an Antec P193 to be honest. But anyone who owns a Hundred series case is a hipster, a computer ignorant who thinks because they managed to assemble a list of parts someone gave them that they can have the title of enthusiast, that they actually know what they're doing. And they really don't. The CoolerMaster 500 and 600 series cases cool better than the Antecs and usually cost less. They're also of a much higher quality and do not have the hipster curse on them.

This is why I do not recommend Antec cases.

This is the case I have, btw: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129018
I didn't get it from Newegg because another site had it on sale at the time.

Again, I didn't get it for cooling performance, but instead I was trying to quiet things down. From the pictures on Newegg, you can't really see any of its features, though. It does not show the inside area of the side panels and it does not even show the array of cable management hooks that are on the other side. It does not show the alternate hard drive mounts you can use that don't use screws and further isolate the case from hard drive vibrations (I'm not currently using them because I'm using all 4 bays and it only allows 3 when you use the alternate mounting system). It does not show the mounts for dual 92mm fans (I added two low-speed fans) in front of the hard drive bays or the filter you can have over it (I like to keep the dust out ). The intake setup at the front is one of the things that actually is visible from the pictures. The pictures also can't show how heavy the thing is. Without even putting anything inside yet, it is already about 20 pounds.

It was a top-rated case on a site that has people who rate things based on acoustics and cooling performance, with better acoustics being the top priority. Of course, it won't make a noisy system quiet, but there are some types of noise it can help with.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 20 2010, 2:16 pm by ShadowFlare.

Is it not smarter to have thin panels? Because with thin panels you have better surface area vs volume kind of thing.

You obviously don't want them to be bullet proof but thick enough that they don't flex under the slightest pressure.

Yeah, to maximize heat transfer you would have thin walls with a good heat conducting material. Copper and aluminum are both great, which is why heatsinks are made of them.