From a design perspective I really think sound should be used as an indicator of how close you are to capturing a warp point. Text displaying across the screen would hamper team chat, and the only way to get around that is to only display text when it neutral/complete/interrupted. I would like it if you hear a slight beep that had shorter intervals the sooner you got to capture. A .5 second beep would be negligible to the map size.

It isn't as if the other team didn't put any time into it to capture it in the first place.

Anyway, Unholy, you need to base your detection for whether or not players are alive and in the game based on PYLONS, not the Gateway. I just confirmed a bug with disable where you become immune to Volt's L1 while disabled. You can't LEVEL UP while disabled. You also don't get assimilator cash while anyone on your team is disabled. This is also the reason that the death message is delayed when you kill a disabled player.

I think we're gonna have a Kaizen'd 1.4M6.



Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Apr 8 2009, 1:10 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Okay, here's a ton of my suggestions for balance changes. Some are very good and I like them a lot, some I'm not really sure on and are merely things I'm throwing out there as options that I could see working in Temple Siege. A lot of these have been helped or directly copied off of other people in various different areas of these forums. If you suggested something I've included below, thanks.

Note that most of the following changes are balance changes regarding the characters THEMSELVES, not as compared to other heroes.

Firebat:
- I haven't played enough with the new L2 and modified L3 to make comments on those yet. However, I think the L1 is pretty useless and that didn't change. I still like the det-pack idea for L1, especially given that building kills are becoming more valuable in new versions. (Drops a bomb that goes off in 30 seconds if not touched by an enemy hero. A nearby building is set to 100% shields, 10% HP, kills spawns, stuns Heroes for 8 seconds or so.) This, again, helps it set up its L4.

Medic:
- L1 - Fix the 50 mana glitch when summoning a second medic on top of one you already have.
- L2 - Rally. Gives nearby allies +50 mana AND turns nearby medics into invincible marines (18+1) for 10 seconds or so.
- L3 - Increased duration disable. Should set energy of nearby units to 0, too, as well as stunning them for 3 seconds or so.
L4 - Heal medic to 100%. Heal nearby allies to level + 5 civs (20-30%).
Goal: Make it less L4 reliant by making its L1/L2/L3 much more useful and making the character more well rounded. Also, reduce the ridiculous effectiveness of L4. If possible, it would be nice if the Medic could shoot his own medics. (If this doesn't give killscore.) This means you would not force self-allying.

Assassin:
- No changes, he's very balanced if used well. The only thing I'd suggest would be a longer charge up on the L1, as I have said for a while. With the increased killscore for buildings in newer versions, he will have more diverse paths to choose from, with likely more emphasis on L3 in future games. It wouldn't surprise me to see a build develop that focuses on sniping a warp gate, if the game develops as I'd like to see.

Warrior:
- 5200 HP.
- 150 Shields.
L1 still sets to 10%, still. L4 still sets to 100%.
Goal: This makes L1/L4, currently both underused, much more viable but reduces how ridiculous of a tank it is right now.

Volt:
- I'm not good enough at this class to make suggestions about it. It seems pretty balanced, to me.

Light Mage:
L2 - Turns the LM into a Scout (Shuttle? Whichever is faster.) for 4-5 seconds, allowing him to essentially teleport. He can still cast other spells while in midair, however, casting another spell should end the teleport. (A late-game LM flying in, casting L4, then flying away for only 170 mana would be ridiculously broken.) It needs to be reasonably hard to kill the flier, maybe 150/150, but killing it should end the teleport where it dies and stun the LM (a la Earth Demon) for a few seconds. This might need a 4-5 second cooldown. Potentially this could give it full energy, too?
L3 - 4 Reaver burst. Same as current L2, but with increased damage. 150+10, maybe?
L4 - Two options:
--------- 1.) Turn the LM into an invincible Reaver for 30 seconds or so and cast current L3 (Dragoons/Wall of Light). (Cannot teleport while in Reaver form)
--------- 2.) Cast 4-Reaver burst, then when those are removed cast Wall of Light. (Allows for some L3/L4 trickery.)
Goal: Give the LM options other than sitting just outside of its cannons and team splashing with L2/Storm. The new L2 would do this almost entirely by itself. Also, the LM would have pretty obvious split upgrades that would make it

Mutant:
- I think the mutant is diverse and balanced. I do however think that late-game L3 spamcasting can be slightly ridiculous. Perhaps lower the base damage on Lurkers so that keeping up with armor upgrades is more possible. Create even more of them for +2 damage, if it's necessary.

Archer:
Increase damage to +6, lower HP by 200-300. It's an Archer, after all.
L1 - Lower damage to 20+2. Let's be honest, these are kind of broken as they are right now. They deal 216+24 damage for a L1 spell, plus splash nearby enemies with a third of that.
L2 - Archer's Companion: Less Life, slightly less damage (300 hp, 24+4?). Definitely needs a maximum, I just don't know what.
L3 - Guardian that attacks 4-5 times. 100+10?
L4 - Current mutalisk salvo.
Goal: No one uses the archer's camps. With increased score for razings, they will be even less productive. Making the Companion route a viable one and giving options other than L1 muta spam will definitely make this character more fun and more balanced.

Summoner:
L1 - Current, max of 6 zerglings.
L2 - Broodlings which have +6 damage. Max of 3. (Think on it, with 20 upgrades they are doing more than 125 damage per hit.)
L3 - Current L3. Simplified, though. Eat 6 low level or 1 ultra for Half HP. Eat 2 ultras for full HP.
L4 - Current ultralisk. Max of 2.
Goal: Make something besides going L1+Upgrades viable. I have not seen Infested Terrans do something useful in a game... Ever.

Dark Mage:
This character is balanced in the M versions, though it's definitely not even close to newb friendly. Obviously the L4 needs to change with the summoner change or it would be too powerful. I think that it should be a 1-hitter. Create 8 broodlings (drones? zerglings?) around any "cursed" hero. If there are none, create 8 around the DM. If people want to keep this spell similar to how it is now, lower the duration and make them zerglings. I'd like to see the L2 duration lowered and the L3 effectiveness increased, however. I also would like to see Feedback dropped to 60 mana.

Mech:
- Give the Mech Player a Machine Shop... Charon Boosters: 20. Vulture Speed: 80. Siege Mode: 40.
- Lower Tank HP significantly, 3000? Increase Siege mode damage by a decent amount and give it 10 and 15 armor.
Goal: Opens a route for fast tank against certain opponents, allows the Mech to go even more on offense. Reduces how much the Vulture beats everything, because if you want speed you need to sacrifice a few damage upgrades.

Special Ops (Marine):
L1 - Single Cast Yamato Cannon. Explosive damage means it does 130 to most units, 195 to some, and 260 to Large Units/Buildings. Should DEFINITELY be killable, I'd say maybe 120 HP. (This is not upgradable.)
Other spells are hopefully balanced now, I haven't gotten much of a chance to play with them.
Goal: Reduce the current L1/L2 overlap of detection+scouting. This is probably the change that I'm least sure on, but I think the comsat is foolish and needs to go. Another possibility would be moving the snipe back to L2, the vessel to L1, and finding a suitable L3.

Phantom: and Psion/Physicist:
Add us!? The characters can be balanced, I think. Combining Protoss Air with the Dragoon Hero would be cool, the whole aura thing is pretty dull. To me, the Earth Demon is just too different of a hero to fit in Temple Siege.


Absolutely everything written herein is up for debate. There's a lot of stuff that's pretty big, I don't expect anyone to like all of the changes, but I think that they are for the most part well thought out and well designed. Obviously these changes would pretty significantly modify the game, but if they are tested and balanced beforehand, it would be worth it, to me. It would also recombine the two versions and give us a soon-to-be tournament ready version of Temple Siege that would hopefully never again need drastic updates. I look forward to some fierce feedback. =)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:36 pm by Decency.

Faz some of that sounds good but you didn't think spawn through very well. screwing with some of those units for spells means screwing with the spawn which affects the entire game. obviously some of this can be played with but as unholy said there are very very few ground units left that he has not used.

I particulairly like the idea for the attachment for mech. although im not quite sure how much this will help balance him with other heros. esentially he has much more hp than almost any other hero. At least you take down his dmg a bit
though which is good idea.

Light mage is gona be relatively tought i think with L3 being reavers. i understand the L2 will allow him to move arround much better but you really don't comprehend how slow a character the lightmage is in terms of exp. if you move the reavers to L3 you are really gona screw him up. I know everyone hates the multi lane feeding by light mage but this is not the answer. your L2 will make him better at pking and escaping but i'm affraid it wont help him exp which will now take 6civs into spell upgrades and 30 more mana to fire off those reavers.

your idea for medic rally seems pretty cool although i think dropping the mana boost and making it about attacks would be better.

Stopped reading here. The new Lv1 is very good if you have half a brain to constantly right click with both the firebat and the scourged grouped.

The Marines, Zerglings, Broodlings do not have upgrades when they are controlled by spawn. So that is a non-issue.

As for the L2, I thought that giving him mana when he casts it (either enough for 1 cast, or full mana) would make him more viable for exping. Storm isn't quite as dominant as reavers are for splash killing allies.

Emphasis on this for anyone else replying.

I can definitely fix the mana problem in the next version.
I was actually toying with that effect for L2. I would probably put that L2 into L3 and leave disable alone.
Killing units that you own does not produce killscore, so that's possible.

Sniping warp gates you say......

I'm not sure if I like the numbers, but IMO the Warrior is a bit strong now.
Does anyone else that I should decrease the stun duration of L3 given how easy to use it is?

I think so, too. I'm not sure if a damage change is necessary, incorporating Unholy's pre-hit effects might be sufficent.

Make it what?

This class is definitely overdue for a revamp. Most of the game that I play as Archer or with Archer players in them never see the use of L2 or any spell above it. (unless there is an extended endgame) There are two fears I have:
1. Too many damage spells.
2. Archer becoming another Summoner.

It might be necessary. The same thing that I see with Archer applies here - you simply don't see the use of L2 or above. (unless there is an extended endgame)[/quote]
I haven't seen the L2 do anything useful either. Providing the Summoner with a more diverse range of summons is most likely a good direction for this class.

"This character is balanced in the M versions, though it's definitely not even close to newb friendly." -- one of the truest statements I have read about this underrated class.
8 Broodlings around a hero once is not powerful enough for an L4. (unless they get +6 from the summoner change) Even with an L2 combo, most classes will just manual out and that will be that. Though the Zergling change (or drones, if drones for Archer get dropped) might change that.

I don't think there's any question that Tank mode is not as useful as it should be.
We also have the L2/L3 switch as an option. I'm sure I'd never hear the end of the bitching if I ever did it.

I have no plans to implement 1.5 heroes, but I don't think it's much of a secret than I plan to add (a heavily modified) Physicist eventually.


And yes, I know I didn't comment a lot of things. That means I have no opinion/wasn't ready to answer it/don't like it/etc.



This isn't 1.5. There are more units to spare. None of his suggestions will conflict with the spawns, except the Hydras which are too strong anyway. His Medic spell uses existing Marines, the Battle Tank can just have its bonus upgrades dropped, etc.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 14 2009, 4:27 am by Mini Moose 2707.

You know what, that medic to marine thing sounds pretty neat. I think I heard of it somewhere...like 1.5

But you could finnaly put them bitches to good use. And yes, warrior stun is extremly easy to use, and abuse.

Does anyone else feel that Marine as it is now needs a base damage boost? Something small, I'm thinking 15 -> 18 or 19.

Do it, hes been nerfed to hell now.

so i herd this wuz worth reeding?

The det pack idea is good for the Lv3, NOT the lv1. I also like the idea of it weakening an enemy building, but not as much as %10.
I never thought I could agree with so much you said here. Still, you went waaay overboard when you said that it should also stun, no way should it stun. One thing I'm not sure about is whether the rines should be invinc.
Also, I think the self-allying trigger is just stupid. You don't gain killscore by killing your own units, we should just remove it.

I don't like the increased building killscore idea, although I have always said Warp Gate killing should give benefits. Make the Lv1 even longer? That's ridiculous.

Warrior:
- 5200 HP.
- 150 Shields.
L1 still sets to 10%, still. L4 still sets to 100%.
Goal: This makes L1/L4, currently both underused, much more viable but reduces how ridiculous of a tank it is right now.
I'm not sure if I hate this or not... I guess if I don't know that I guess I don't?
@moose: Don't touch his Lv3. If you do anything just make sure it kills summons.

Well I don't think it should neutral all summons/spawns with Lv3.

All of this is just plain shit. You will have destroyed his 1 of 2 downsides. He's supposed to be slow and difficult to maneuver around. It's so bad I'm just going to give my own ideas because everything you just said should just be dismissed.
First of all, just having split upgrades does give it versatility. We just need to give more of an incentive to also level the ground attack. Make the Lv3 spawn 1 goon that can be helpful by itself, but when you cast lv3 again it explodes and wall of light is CASTED at it. His lv4 should be the mech's OLD lv4.

Beat my to it. When people say it's rigged and we tell them to get armor, it still isn't enough but I still like the idea of armor being its counter. It really should have the damage cut in half, and lurkers doubled.

alright
no. Archer was still defeated a lot with +4 mutas, so nerfing it to +2 is not reasonable.
Yay! New summoner! Oh wait it's an ARCHER! Let's not do that. How about instead of a bunch of peons, how about just 1 strong and capable companion? Like whenever you use lv1, he spawns 1 muta as well over him.
At first glance I thought you meant a group of gaurds, and had a wall of flame ready to post (I hope I'm correct). This still is kinda dumb because you will only be hitting cannons 4-5 times like this. I think it should be something like your stats, but only 1 shot. The core of archer play is player killing by tagging along side of them while they run back to base while spamming lv1. When the Lv3 adds to this experience, then you will have players moving beyond lv1.

I say scrap the Archer camp shit, and give the player solid companion and strong-lone-archer options.

I would never touch this summoner with a ten foot pole. You want to add depth to him by just giving him another melee zerg summon? REALLY? This broodling idea takes the cake for your worst idea ever faz-. The fact is that even with just Lv1's the summoner is micro-intensive, fun, unique, and successful. Your solution to diversity is to take away the most popular build, when what you should be doing is giving the player better reasons and options to break away from the standard build.
Now for better summoner ideas from an actual summoner: Make the lv2 only create bombs for lings around the defiler, and make 2 for every 1 ling. Do away with the spawning pool. At Lv2 give the summoner a computer ling(somewhere obscured) with speed researched, and at lv3 give do the same thing with attack speed. Ofcourse it would still have some kind of Lv2/3 spells. Ultra is really only useful against bat, so that's bad. The summoners lv4 should be something that helps all his spawned units in some way, like constant 100% hp for 10 seconds. Just something global.

Well thank god then that the broodling idea is terrible. 60 mana feedback is good.
nonononono. Do the samething I outlined for summoner, this should be seemless. Keep vulture a lv2, but only when he gets lv3 does it gain speed. If you are going to make anything only cost 20, why not just make it researched to begin with. 20 is nothing.

dumdumdumdum. I say spec ops gets his mines back for both lv1 and lv4. Disable mine capping by always killing all mines on beacons. Mines have 10 hp, but spawn with only 30%hp when placed via Lv1, and they are full hp when placed via Lv4. Do w/e with his lv2 because I really never liked that scv.

I'd rather he didn't.

Everything not commented on is either too stupid to consider, or too obvious not to agree with.

My answer to LM cannon hugging while reaping the benefits of splash:
I think a conscious effort should just be taken to make sure the spawns(at least the broods) only collide well at the points in the map where you are far away form cannons. I believe this would fix a ton of balance issues. If LM wants to storm/reaver-gay spawns, he can do it just not in any kind of a safe position.

I agree with CAFG, but I like detpack (firebat can't kill buildings worth shit) as l3 and 10% hp. What's a good way to destroy it, though? I think it's rather useless if it's a one touch destroy with a long timer. It would add some fun if it were a proximity bomb that activated after a timer, much like the sand trap in 1.5. Use observer as the marker, so ranged units can kill it, but it has some use for catching people at night. Give it low hp so storm can kill it. Melee only units are SOL. Alternatively, after it activates, it blows up after a 1 second timer similar to the current l1.

I especially agree with no pool/machine shop for summoner/mech, and the medic ideas - stun.

Let's wait a while before the "group leader" aspect of 1.5 plays out to balance summ lane whoring.

Have the guardian be moved over the archer if the archer moves away, so you can get the 4-5 hits.

I'm apathetic towards marine, but I've always thought it could use 18+2 rather than 15+2.

If the spawns meet at some area further away from the cannons, there's no chance of the mage ever getting any kills in the "safe" spot, the units will just kill themselves. L3 reavers, same damage is fine by me. Then again I suck at lm because I can't time l1.

Every other non-summon/transform attack spell is invincible, why the exception? IMO, 10 seconds is too long though. Unless, of course, Rally gets put into L3. Even then, it might be too long.

There's a matter of efficency as to why it's done. There is no "self-allying" trigger.
You have two triggers for each force telling them to ally their own force and their computer base (which includes themselves) and to enemy the other force and their computer base. This is more efficent than having six triggers do it naming specific players.

Of all people, I would expect you to be keeping up with the change lists.

This has already been done. Remember when there were eight +4 Lurkers? That's why there's sixteen +2 Lurkers now. If there are 32 +1 Lurkers, armor becomes TOO effective. Since armor is cheaper than weapon, the spell can actually become useless. It'll also become terrible for damage the Temple.
Let's face it: there are a lot of players who outright refuse to buy armor. They want to kill kill kill things fast and they'll never be convinced to buy armor no matter how much good it does them. As a DM player who gets too many PKs from simply maeling once or twice as spawns are approaching, I can testify.

That might be interesting.

Would this even work?
If so, where are these computer players coming from?

The general idea of a higher Feedback cost is that I want most things to be able to cast their spells before they can lose their energy to Feedback.
Medic needs 225 to cloak, so obviously the cost isn't going up there.
Summoner... well, DM needs all the help she can get vs. Summoner, so screw the Summoner with Feedback.
Vessel is able to D-Matrix cheaper, Light Mage can Psi Storm for 60, etc.

Maybe for the LV1. I feel like it's a cop out to just kill mines at the beacons to prevent mine capping but it might be a good solution.

We give both the computers speed researched.
I need to test it, but I'm pretty sure you can have p12 with attack speed researched by default.

I think thirty seconds is a bit ridiculous, if we use this I think something more like 15-20 would be more useable. Unless you plan on letting them cap bases with this.
Maybe instead of +50, +20%? So it keeps it's sort of small boost throughout the entire game.
How often do assassins assassinate a building? The term ninja would work better, and I don't think anyone's gonna want to do a building killer build, that just seems boring.
Maybe instead teleport him to hallucination? Hallu, go out, do some shit tele back to base if the hally is alive, or hallu a player and tele + l1 trapping, Hallu a team mate behind you to get away quickly but keep fighting.

I agree with pretty much everything else, but it seems like all of the archers arrow spells take a while before they inflict damage, I'd like to see a bit of variety, instead of slow damage like l1/l4, make it a quick power shot of high damage, maybe 500+15?

Let's face it, by the time you get your l3 as a summoner and you actually need the extra HP, it's probably very late game and you're going for the kill, if it's an outpost it's close enough to wear you can go in and out without risk. If it's the enemys base you probably have some assistance from other heroes unless your by yourself, even then I think this is a garbage spell. My say for summoner is to scrap it, the L4 (ultralisks) is NEVER used by a pro summoner, it's only effective against like a medic, They're slow and a mass xp in a bottle, If we want to keep ultras I'd say switch them to the L3, make an entirely new l4. I agree the infested terrans are rarely if ever used and I've never seen them used to any good effect.

I find the dark mage to be pretty fine as it is, although I do think feedback needs a lower cost.

Well we need to do something besides the wraiths, the cross build is retarded, the mech already needs to upgrade HP, Mana and attack, if you don't go hp you have to get l3, if you get l3 you have less damage/mana, if you go l4 you probably have no hp at all and if you're in gol/tank mode its easy to dodge, if your in vult mode you probably have less than 700 hp and are going to die rather quickly, seeing as l4 is 120 mana and you become surrounded upon casting.

The problem with yamato cannon is that the damage is never increased throughout the game, if you look at everyone elses L1, they are upgradeable or remain very useful for the whole game, thechances of scoring a snipe with this late game are very small, especially since you have to aim. What MIGHT Be cool is to create a battlecruiser for the the time it takes to yamato plus 2 seconds or so, instead of having it do 0 damage, have it have decent damage that is upgradeable throughout the game, then the player can use it to deal slow powerful damage, or snipe a player running away. This would go with the theme of terran air for spec ops, BC L1, Vessel L2, Dropship L3, Mines L4. I'd actually like to see the l4 somehow incorperate damaging terran air aswell, nobody really likes the whole invinceible mines thing anyways.

I also find the earth demon quite dull, but some people like it, so as long as it doesn't mess any class up I see no reason to scrap it, if we put in mooses hero lets make it protoss air spell based to callaborate with the L4, Maybe upon L4 finishing scouts replace the interceptors or maybe arbs.

Your not going to fucking believe this, but it actually works, but ONLY for attack speed. That's good enough though because we can just give p7/8 speed on their lings.

EDIT: NVM, they both totally work, you just have to use p9-11

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 14 2009, 4:05 pm by ClansAreForGays.

i guess i kinda forgot about the upgrades on broods and such but i was also thinking as to other stuff he may need to modify such as maybe hp and what not as some stuff would die faster. either way playing with some of that stuff as regarding to spells could eventually effect spawn. the hydra one is the one i'm most concerned being it will be modified to incorperate new path to play as a hydra. If it went the route of being a solo companion that would prolly work best in terms of not screwing with spawn too much but i guess you figure its too strong already so ill drop it completely.

i do however think the factory attachment would be really nice. so far it seems to be shot down but there only suggestion for a fix is to throw the speed upgrades once they reach the next spell level. I guess i lean more towards the upgrades because thats more like advancing the path you want rather than getting a spell you don't really want/use just so you can have more power in the previous form. Being a perfect world i would lean towards icemans 2.0 idea and points invested into a particular spell would improve that spell but i think minerals is a good compromise at least until starcraft 2 comes out

I feel that the Medic needs to stay as a support hero rather then try to be what the Phantom does entirely better. Even if these changes don't directly regard 1.5, the Phantom is still the hero what you expect the Medic to be. With each offensive spell that it is given, another support spell needs to be removed which ends up decreasing the effectiveness of its purpose role.

To me, Assassin feels like the most balanced out of all heroes. I do suggest detection that can be built in base so even if you don't get Mutant or Spec Ops, your team have a RELIABLE way to detect and can leave their temple. I'm not giving the idea that there is not enough available ways to detect an Assassin during the night, but that every hero needs some form of this in their own temple because cannons are useless, with or without Assassin's L3.

This is the hero that in my opinion needs to be made stronger, regardless of its Hp decrease. The Warrior's spells are essentially are less versatile Volt in my eyes. Warrior and Volt's L2 are both trapping spells and the Volt's L2 is arguably a lot more useful for this purpose while Warrior's seems like slight damage increase. Their L3 spells is where they are most alike. Warrior's advantages to this spell is that it is a faster and more agile hero and the stun is quite easy to pull of because of this. But what happens when there is the HIGH chance that the hero is a spell caster? This makes the spell mostly used for a team play or when he is chasing after someone with low hp, or whatever it may be. The L4 essentially makes the Warrior a tank, at the sacrifice for Hp upgrades. The Volt's spell on the other hand is a whole new transformation with extra hp, gained attack and the biggest part is that it is also invincible to spell effects and stuns while in this mode. I know that the Warrior has its own advantages and Volt has its own disadvantages, one being that it uses shields primarily, meaning that it takes a lot more damage then the Warrior would. Even so, the similarities are undeniable between the two heroes.


L1 seems fine to me, L2 was broken in the sense that it was spammable over and over until the hero reached death. I think that the L2 has been fixed in 1.5 so I won't comment on that. The L3 is the huge offensive spell, I highly suggest decreasing mana taken, to something more realistic as 240 mana worth of stuns = 450 mana taken away from the enemy. This makes the Volt pretty much a counter to every non mana user, and an even bigger counter to all mana users. The L4 serves its purpose very well and is basically its tank form. At the same time, it is still very easy to kill with a high damage attack because of its shields.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't see why everyone wants a teleport for the LM when the whole idea of the LM is to be a huge, slow, high damage tank.


The main problem with the L3 is that its spawn killing capabilities means it reaches those high upgrades quite quickly. It also seems with the more lurkers added, the more spawn it is possible of killing with one cast. Armor and Hp are both good counters to the damage, but even those have their limits when the Mutant's L3 pays off so much more in minerals and experience.
Although sunken usefulness is quite low, those spores for detection and Nydus Canal make up for it, so I'm not going to complain that the spell is horrible and insist that it is to be kept.
Infested Terran are used to kill a Nuclear Ghost under D-Web (since Summoner has no non-melee).

The main problem with Summoner's L3 is that it makes the Medic + Summoner even more useless besides disabling and (excess) mana, since the Summoner has its own mobile heal. Because of this the L3 should be removed entirely. My only idea for the L3 is to give it a max of 4 Hydras (to increase versatility) with the ling cap being 6 (+ 2 ultralisk = 12 altogether). I do understand this idea would completely change the Summoner, but this would actually make it feel more like one.
The only thing I felt like outright agreeing with was the large Tank mode armor.
Comsat was a great idea, but the Science Vessel has always already been there. The comsat is far from useless, but given to SPEC OPS it loses its usefulness and I would like to see that spell used for another hero.

Triggering nightmare.

Triggering nightmare #2.

A guardian spell doesn't necessarily have to attack slowly. The spell can appear as if it is machine-gunning as it was in War of Emperium.

Way back before the Temple armor change, Ultralisks used to be the Summoner's only shot at killing the Temple. Ultralisks have the speed upgrade and aren't THAT slow.

You'll die quickly, but usually someone getting hit by L4 will die even quicker.
Also, has anyone checked if you can transform while the L4 is in progress? That would really minimize Mech's chance of death while casting L4.

Not necessarily. One should not overlook the fact that once Yamato is locked, it will literally fly accross the entire map if it has to and will not miss. (barring any other circumstances, for example transformation or invincibility) Great for the guy who think's he's getting away with double digit HP...

---

This is most definitely an original opinion.

There are some, but not very many. That's all I will say, since you have a tendency to be technical and argumentative in order to prove a point and I would not feel that time was well-spent. (see Mutant L4 debate, Medic debate in 1.5 topic)

Logically, I don't see why two Lurkers attacking in the same place at the same time would attack two different targets. I don't understand what variables are different between the two Lurkers that the AI would use to determine that it should target a different unit.

Indeed they are. There are benefits and drawbacks to each arrangement of spells.

Inapplicable in 1.4M5. (D-Web is a one-hit area spell.)