yes zell, because clearly spec ops' sattellite and its EMP doesnt counter volt.

Volt isn't that hard to counter if you fight him when he is alone without any of his allies. You can still manually attack him while you are paralyzed by his lv 1 and lv 2. I'm not sure about his lv 3 though.

the hole idea of special ops sniping is wrong? err...archer/medic is pretty much the snipers. Special Ops is a hit and run kind of unit. You don't give a unit that can just spawn a ultra ghost and run like hell power like that....even if its 3rd spell. Plus just saying you know giving him 15-20 +2 is awkward? I mean everyone else upgrades more than two and even summoner lings can pwn his attack later on. If you are wanting to change things on the marine why not just make a cool down time for him to recast shit and for sci vessel make it cost more energy to use dematrix and emp and what not. But to me the spells seem fine but w/e

Maybe marine states like:
-12+3/ 1 armor?(that is well for a marine no worries over 15 or 20.)
-mines hp 50 /20 armor or less?
-Hp seems fine where it is...Anyone who upgrades there hp high is going to be a fuckin beast so why complain about it?(warrior pwns thought with 6k XD)

You have to worry about that L3 getting spammed as much as Mutant's Lurkers.
Has anyone actually tried fighting a decent LM player with Spec Ops? Even though you have the range advantage, personally I still find it to be very difficult.

Special Operations is ... making fortresses? Wut?
Actually... SCV and fortresses... sounds more like an Assaulting tactic... trench warfare and such.

I hate to say that "Tactical Defense" is not a job I would associate "Special Operations" with. I think secret agent James Bond things.

It didn't turn out how I want it to be... the HP cut is a temporary measure at best.

I'd be happier spared the filesize and listening to whatever I want.

L3 is no different. Volt's inherent clumsiness because he's a giant unit, his dependence on shields, etc. already make him countered well enough. His paralysis isn't very long in duration and his attack isn't that fast... you almost need an ally or very low HP opponent if you plan on killing anybody with it. Personally, I can't seem to do well with Volt anymore at all... or see other players do well against me with Volt either. The class just seems to have lost its competitive edge in my eyes.

Special Ops abusing spells is not the problem. You don't even NEED any spells more than mines + 60 mana to do extraordinarily well with Special Ops... just attack upgrade and HP spam. 95% of players I see are not doing well with Special Ops because they're displaying expert usage of his spells.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 1 2008, 1:49 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Yes, most units get +3 damage for upgrades. Most units also attack about 3 times slower than a stim-packed marine. On top of that, it does a single hit of normal damage type, and is thus not affected by unit size or as affected by armor or plasma shields. A marine getting +3 will 2-hit a summoner's Zerglings a few minutes into the game. By endgame, it will be 1-hitting them. Do tell me how you expect to "pwn his attack" when your summons get shot down in 1 hit at a rate of over 3 per second?

As to countering Volt: EMP, Vulture/Tank, Lurkers, Warrior works well with either stun or DT's, Light Mage and Dragoons will utterly destroy it, Temps/Reavers aren't bad either.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:28 pm by Decency.

for one thing lings that are upgraded with equal armor and attack like say 20/20 and marine is around that same 60 damage marine 20+2*20=60-armor 40/lings 10+2*20=50-armor 30thing. it would take two shots plus the fact that summoner can spawn mad lings and a group of them can take down around 1k of hp in a snap if in the right situation. Of course there is also mines and what not but I'm talking just bare marine fighting lings . My iexample has flaws I'm just stating it just makes him more weaker with less upage

Duh. That's the point. He's way the fuck overpowered.

Moose, the newest version with 11+3 still doesn't cut it from what I've seen. 13 upgrades = 1 hit broodlings, and it's just so fast.

STOP EVERYTHING WITH SPEC OPS..
I just had a brainstorm, and I have came up with some GREAT ideas for the ol' marine
So great that I want to finish it right now but can't because of exams (FUCK i need to concentrate)
I don't wanna tell you guys about it yet tho, cause I don't wanna get ur hopes high and then screw up
But trust me.. it's good

I also had a brainstorm about probe's buildings themselves, and I got some great plans for it too.. So we'll c what happens =o

I really hope it isn't that barrack crap you were talking about with shocko(I think it was even his idea(figures)). I'd rather not have another summoner in the game.

A building that builds mines.

I forsee some serious work getting done on this map as soon as winter break hits. Everyone wants a piece of this.

XP Fix Idea I:
Currently there is a triggered max cap at 1400 kill score that makes any unit/combo of kills worth more than 1400 kill score give 16 xp. (Units that give 1300, like the DA, fire off the smaller trigger 8-9 times resulting in 32-36)

If the max is changed to 600 kill score, the following units would be subject to the max XP cap:
Dropship, Golem (Gol Spawn), Ultralisk, Dark Archon, Dragoon Spawn (I would switch them to hero goon to make it apply to them)

Note that I'm not listing heroes because I plan to have all hero kills give a standard amount of XP.

Emergent Gameplay: Volt L1 Scourges fucked my Assault Dropship (With Assault in it ).

Unwanted?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:54 pm by Decency.

I've had an idea for sec ops lvl3 - I dunno if it's doable though. How about a lvl3 that throws a grenade e.g. spawns a scarab? (I think it's doable I've seen an Archon in Unknown with the ability to spawn scarabs) or when the spec obs reaches lvl3 give him the ability to switch weapons? (ghost and non hero bat?). Is it possible to make triggers that link those "weapons" hp with the main unit do avoid giving it the same ability as mech? Like have a stargate where if you build a wraith you get smg, dropship sniper rifle, valk flamethrower etc. or how about a combination? when spec ops reaches lvl 3 give him the ability to throw a grenade and unlock his other weapons by making the starport available? But... 80 mana seems steep for a grenade :S (that's even if it's doable) so maybe switch it with the sci vessel making it lvl3 again? It shouldn't be too hard to balance the dmg output vs speed etc.

I dunno, just thinking of more fun ways to play rine

It would be nice to see a system where if you kill a hero you xp depending on the other hero's level.

A comment on the DM discussion - mael spam isn't the only way you can kill someone, one mael, then walk up cast lvl4 and then spam lvl2, leaves them trapped in brood spawns while the char with the 3rd highest damage (correct me if I'm wrong >.<) (and not counting attack speed) in the game spanks him to death. Oh, and if I have enough mana I just throw in lvl3 for fun.

I haven't played the most recent recent update, but I've noticed that the mech's lvl4 stays after he dies (I saw a vult try to lvl4 an hp/attack rine - the rine raped the vults low hp while it was trapped in its own spawn) Although the rine probably should've run after the mech died, the spawn lingered there for the eternity that mech's lvl4 lasts.

Oh and anyone who thinks Warrior can't take on LM is dead wrong. Am I the only one that instead of spamming hp as warrior that spams lvl4 and mana?

Will there be something like upgrading spells implemented? That would be nice to see so we can see more unique "builds".

I have to say this map has been one of the most enjoyable UMS maps I've played, and coming from The Philippines where DotA is the equivalent of SC to Korea that must count as something

~AJ

how bout a perfect dark style laptop gun you set and forget? it sticks to the espionage style you want, and isnt off stream with sattelite and mines.

One scarab is going to be pretty weak. I guess you could make it 10 or whatever. Regardless, Light Mage's L2 and L4 already do this type of thing. Plus Assault technically has a "Grenade" for L2.

Possible is a bad word for this. It is "possible" with EUDs, but as matter of practicality and sanity, no.

We might have something here. Depends how involved I want to get with the hero XP triggers.

Odds are that the people who say DM is ruined because Maelstrom was changed probably didn't get the other spells anyway.

Every classes' units remain after they die. This would include your Summoner spawns, Warrior's L2 DTs, Archer's Mutas/Companions/Camps, what have you. They only disappear when the player is eliminated.

what happened with the assault in the dropship again?

no cafg, i don't think another summoner will be made.... even tho me n moose have thought up a way of doing it.. we won't go thru with it...
Winter break'll be crazily sweet ...

@aluviel .. same things as Moose said
+ thanks for liking the map .. is dota really that popular in phillipines? =o...

The enemy Volt casted his level 1, spawning 10 scourges that go out in random directions to stun. They all just instead went right at my dropship and suicided into it, killing it.

Old. I don't want to see it fixed.

Uhm... What? Why wouldn't you want to see a bug fixed?