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[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm]  payne -- JackJack shouted: Payne that's not really political per se, is it? Isn't that more to do with system of government? sorry, what do you mean?[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm]  Jack -- But if abortion is against the law then the police must enforce that law.[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] Zoan -- Is communism even feasibly possible without any form of rulers holding the thing together?[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Jack -- Libertarianism is all about the government only running the police, and possibly the army, from my understanding of it.[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Sand Wraith the political compass has 2 dimensions: LEFT/RIGHT (capitalism versus communism) and BOTTOM/TOP (fascism versus anarchism)... all the possibilities are encompassed in that. Thus "Anarchism" is far from having to be linked with liberal ideas (though I am unsure what YOU mean by "liberal baggage" here) I meant "liberal baggage" as in ideas such as individuality, hedonism, lack of social responsibilty, etc.[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Fire_KameYeah what's that got to do with libertarian? it steps on freedom of choice - that's great if you don't plan to take part in gay marriage or get an abortion, but a tenant of libertarianism is that every has the freedom to make these decisions for themselves[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Jack -- Payne that's not really political per se, is it? Isn't that more to do with system of government?[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] Jack -- laissez faire is where it's at, pity there's not many places with a proper laissez faire setup[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne Eh? "Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit." (Wikipedia.) no one is FORCED to make profit when its a privately owned business...[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne Not sure about the anarchist comparison, as there is a lot of liberal baggage attached to it AFAIK. the political compass has 2 dimensions: LEFT/RIGHT (capitalism versus communism) and BOTTOM/TOP (fascism versus anarchism)... all the possibilities are encompassed in that. Thus "Anarchism" is far from having to be linked with liberal ideas (though I am unsure what YOU mean by "liberal baggage" here)[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Jack Really? I thought you had pretty conservative views on marriage and abortion? Yeah what's that got to do with libertarian?[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] Zoan -- paynepayne shouted: Zoan alright, get this: "communism" is a word that has a definition linked to it. In a socio-political debate, such a word is said to be what we have already stated: "stateless, moneyless, classless, post-scarcity". Thus, inevitable, communism IS anarchist. Uhh.. Anarchy is in no way a good idea either.[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: I tend to be pretty libertarian, but then there are variations in libertarian thought anyway Really? I thought you had pretty conservative views on marriage and abortion?[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm]  Moose -- No true Scotsman, no true Communism, no true Libertarians... what is real?[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Sand Wraith capitalism isn't necessarily and inherently profit based... (but it seems to be the current tendency) Eh? "Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit." (Wikipedia.)[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm] Fire_Kame -- RoyRoy shouted: I didn't say I was a libertarian; that's just where I end up when I test myself. are you registered with a party?[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Roy -- I didn't say I was a libertarian; that's just where I end up when I test myself.[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Jack -- I tend to be pretty libertarian, but then there are variations in libertarian thought anyway[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Fire_Kame -- RoyRoy shouted: Fire_Kame I'm a moderate libertarian by testing standards. Libertarian is about as close as I can get, even though I do not agree with most of the core concepts behind the party itself and their extreme conclusions. Best of a bad situation, I suppose.[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Jack -- This quote thing is great for multithreaded simultaneous conversations[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Jack oh simmer jack, I was being remarkably flippant. Text sucks for displaying emotions and such[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Roy -- RoyRoy shouted: Fire_Kame I'm a moderate libertarian by testing standards. I think the quote system is being abused.[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne Needs based as opposed to profits based, use value vs. market value, AFAIK. capitalism isn't necessarily and inherently profit based... (but it seems to be the current tendency)[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Zoan alright, get this: "communism" is a word that has a definition linked to it. In a socio-political debate, such a word is said to be what we have already stated: "stateless, moneyless, classless, post-scarcity". Thus, inevitable, communism IS anarchist. Not sure about the anarchist comparison, as there is a lot of liberal baggage attached to it AFAIK.[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Fire_Kame The hover of the image explains the message more clearly oh simmer jack, I was being remarkably flippant.[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] Roy -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: we used to have a thread a few versions ago where everyone took that political alignment test, I wonder where it went. I'm a moderate libertarian by testing standards.[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] payne -- In an anarchist society, you are NOT forced to share what you have...[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] payne -- ZoanZoan shouted: payneNo, I did. I'm just wondering what the difference is between a communism where everything is shared equally, which I guess is called facist communism, and normal communism alright, get this: "communism" is a word that has a definition linked to it. In a socio-political debate, such a word is said to be what we have already stated: "stateless, moneyless, classless, post-scarcity". Thus, inevitable, communism IS anarchist.[2014-9-01. : 11:30 pm] Fire_Kame -- we used to have a thread a few versions ago where everyone took that political alignment test, I wonder where it went.[2014-9-01. : 11:30 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Jack T_T The hover of the image explains the message more clearly[2014-9-01. : 11:30 pm] Fire_Kame -- this forum is funny, I do believe I am too conservative for payne and too liberal for jack  [2014-9-01. : 11:30 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Sand Wraith how is it better than what capitalism provides? Needs based as opposed to profits based, use value vs. market value, AFAIK.[2014-9-01. : 11:30 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Fire_Kame That's not what the comic is even saying T_T T_T[2014-9-01. : 11:29 pm] Zoan -- paynepayne shouted: Zoan you just never read what I write? No, I did. I'm just wondering what the difference is between a communism where everything is shared equally, which I guess is called facist communism, and normal communism [2014-9-01. : 11:29 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Roy I mean...the computers will always need us...to teach them...right? >_> <_< That's not what the comic is even saying T_T[2014-9-01. : 11:29 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Roy The "extremes" under communism is that you earn both your fair share and those around you (who share with you their earnings). It's not a new idea, and it's better than what capitalism provides. Trust. how is it better than what capitalism provides?[2014-9-01. : 11:29 pm] Sand Wraith -- RoyRoy shouted: But there won't be any share left to earn, SW. What do you mean?[2014-9-01. : 11:29 pm] jjf28 -- we only need robots to do survival tasks once virtual realities reach a certain point[2014-9-01. : 11:28 pm] payne -- ZoanZoan shouted: payneWhat's the difference? you just never read what I write? [2014-9-01. : 11:28 pm] Sand Wraith -- RoyRoy shouted: Except, maybe, be organic. The "extremes" under communism is that you earn both your fair share and those around you (who share with you their earnings). It's not a new idea, and it's better than what capitalism provides. Trust.[2014-9-01. : 11:28 pm] Jack -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Am I the only one who used the Staredit Network link of the breadcrumb trail to get to the forums? And would anyone be upset if it were changed to do that again? yes pls my muscle memory wants that back so badly ;D [2014-9-01. : 11:28 pm] Zoan -- paynepayne shouted: Zoan that is assuming a "fascist communism", which isn't communism. What's the difference?[2014-9-01. : 11:28 pm] Fire_Kame -- speaking of robots taking over the world and leaving us to die in pathetic cells, I'm going to watch the xfiles[2014-9-01. : 11:27 pm] Jack -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: IMO, people in power will find ways to screw over people not in power under regardless of the form of government. Everyone will be as well off under an ideal democracy as they would under an ideal republic/communist regime/facist regime (yes)/anarchy except they won't because they're all assuming they're ideal which won't happen. I don't know that that's completely accurate, as I think there would be variations, but yes, ideals would tend to be pretty ideal. |
