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[2016-2-13. : 8:35 pm]  Roy -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Mini Moose 2707 ... I'd rather not What if you hear about it through a fun six-minute video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k [2016-2-13. : 8:10 pm]  O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- I searched "Unit unit" and found "ChkUnit unit;", "ChkUnit unit = { };", and "ChkUnit unit = {};"[2016-2-13. : 7:44 pm] jjf28 -- FaRTy1billionFaRTy1billion shouted: cool, gravitational waves you're late [2016-2-13. : 6:35 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: Wait until you hear about the Electoral College for the general election LMAO ... I'd rather not [2016-2-13. : 6:29 pm] Moose -- Wait until you hear about the Electoral College for the general election LMAO[2016-2-13. : 6:06 pm] NudeRaider -- so the dnc controls one third of the nation's votes. Why didn't you say so right away?  [2016-2-13. : 5:48 pm] Moose -- THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES NOW. EACH STATE DISTRIBUTES DELEGATES TO THEM. SOME DELEGATES ARE BOUND TO PROPORTIONS OF THEIR VOTES. OTHER DELEGATES CALLED SUPERDELEGATES VOTE HOWEVER.[2016-2-13. : 5:43 pm] NudeRaider -- nvm this is more detailed than I care to know. Lets just keep it at that. Some mysteries are better left unsolved. lol[2016-2-13. : 5:42 pm] NudeRaider -- Ah wait you mean each state elects whoever they think should the party wide candidate be?[2016-2-13. : 5:40 pm] NudeRaider -- wait, every state elects their own presidential candidate during primaries? ("the primaries are state by state") Makes no sense...[2016-2-13. : 5:40 pm] KrayZee -- Whenever I say 'Go away' in an internet conversation, I politely translate that into 'What you wrote is stupid and ridiculous, and you need to smarten up before you ever talk to me again'.[2016-2-13. : 5:37 pm] Moose -- There is no country wide, the primaries are state by state but delegates are counted at the national level[2016-2-13. : 5:34 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: NudeRaider Regular delegates: Win percentage of vote, get particular numbers of delegates. Superdelegates: Vote how the fuck they want. Win enough delegates across the different states: Secure nomination at Democratic National Convention so a national wide comittee "gives out" representatives to all states to whoever seems to have won enough popularity nationally? Like win country wide, gets some guarantee +#of the cake locally?[2016-2-13. : 5:32 pm] jjf28 -- http://callchelseaperetti.tumblr.com/post/105509696926/signalbeast-i-bring-word-from-the-swamp[2016-2-13. : 5:31 pm]  Dem0n -- Bnet log says that it tries to validate ID, and then 20 seconds later it disconnects from the server[2016-2-13. : 5:29 pm] Moose -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Roy I'm out at that point. Don't understand enough of how the delegates thing works. Roy my impression as well. Regular delegates: Win percentage of vote, get particular numbers of delegates. Superdelegates: Vote how the fuck they want. Win enough delegates across the different states: Secure nomination at Democratic National Convention[2016-2-13. : 5:27 pm] NudeRaider -- Dem0nDem0n shouted: If I log into iccup and then log out, I can't log back in for like 5 fucking hours stop spamming iccup with logins[2016-2-13. : 5:27 pm] NudeRaider -- RoyRoy shouted: NudeRaider Well, let's put it this way: the concern is that you could target specific groups to boost your turnout in a non-representational manner. That concern exists with super delegates, except the targeted group is only going to be the super delegates. I'm out at that point. Don't understand enough of how the delegates thing works. RoyRoy shouted: I can see how you could justify it, but it's a bunch of smoke and mirrors. my impression as well.[2016-2-13. : 5:27 pm] Dem0n -- If I log into iccup and then log out, I can't log back in for like 5 fucking hours[2016-2-13. : 5:17 pm] Moose -- RoyRoy shouted: NudeRaider Well, let's put it this way: the concern is that you could target specific groups to boost your turnout in a non-representational manner. That concern exists with super delegates, except the targeted group is only going to be the super delegates. Not to mention that if you can manage to not lose a popular vote by more than 31.9%, they're the better group to target.[2016-2-13. : 5:13 pm] Roy -- I can see how you could justify it, but it's a bunch of smoke and mirrors.[2016-2-13. : 5:12 pm] Roy -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: Roy I did no judging whether I think it's good or bad. But if you must know, obviously the negative "side" effect outweighs the "legitimate concern" I mentioned. But it shows why they can still cling to it: Because there actually is an upside. Well upside depending on the view, as Moose pointed out. Well, let's put it this way: the concern is that you could target specific groups to boost your turnout in a non-representational manner. That concern exists with super delegates, except the targeted group is only going to be the super delegates.[2016-2-13. : 5:07 pm] Moose -- Actually, Sanders was an independent who just happens to align with the Democrats and knows a third party has little to no chance, so it's unsurprising why the current establish of each party would dislike Trump/Sanders and work against them.[2016-2-13. : 5:06 pm] Moose -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: NudeRaider afaik republicans have a straightforward delegate system and many long-time republicans hate trump; so if they had superdelegates they could take a huge chunk out of his chance of winning Unsurprising, he independently broke into the party complete with his own money and they have no control over him.[2016-2-13. : 4:36 pm] jjf28 -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: jjf28 do superdelegates prevent trump? if so, how? afaik republicans have a straightforward delegate system and many long-time republicans hate trump; so if they had superdelegates they could take a huge chunk out of his chance of winning[2016-2-13. : 4:31 pm] Moose -- And I didn't really know about the Democrats' process, either, until this. The ignorance of these systems has probably helped to perpetuate their existence.[2016-2-13. : 4:27 pm] Moose -- I don't even know how the Republican candidate selection process works, to be honest, family.[2016-2-13. : 4:26 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: Mini Moose 2707 --> then you think the republicans have it better --> then you see trump --> maybe they'd be better off with superdelegates do superdelegates prevent trump? if so, how? [2016-2-13. : 4:20 pm] jjf28 -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: > Win primary by 22% > Get fewer delegates > Democracy in two thousand and sixteen > Laughing my ass off! > --> then you think the republicans have it better --> then you see trump --> maybe they'd be better off with superdelegates  [2016-2-13. : 3:51 pm] NudeRaider -- RoyRoy shouted: NudeRaider That's only an issue for a two party system. Your justification is that it's a good thing we have protections to keep a broken system broken. I did no judging whether I think it's good or bad. But if you must know, obviously the negative "side" effect outweighs the "legitimate concern" I mentioned. But it shows why they can still cling to it: Because there actually is an upside. Well upside depending on the view, as Moose pointed out.[2016-2-13. : 3:15 pm] Moose -- To win disregarding superdelegates, a candidate would have needed 68.1% of the vote. (which would leave the other, assuming there are two, with 31.9% of the vote.) This means the establishment can effectively silence 36.2% of the voters because they feel like it.[2016-2-13. : 3:11 pm] Moose -- But ostensibly also to keep a not-broken system not-broken, which is how they'll claim it is.[2016-2-13. : 3:04 pm] Roy -- NudeRaiderNudeRaider shouted: I see it more like a double edged sword. (Disclaimer: I only have a very basic understanding of the American voting / delegates system) As you say its (probably intended) side effect is that those in power stay in power but it also works against a legitimate concern: Some very active outsider group makes disproportional effort to target specific groups and gets overwhelming support from them which makes them non-representativ for all voters. That's only an issue for a two party system. Your justification is that it's a good thing we have protections to keep a broken system broken.[2016-2-13. : 2:59 pm] Moose -- And if it turns out for some reason that only one group has a significant turnout, one can argue that they should be the ones running the show because clearly nobody else was even interested.[2016-2-13. : 2:57 pm] Moose -- I mean, it's a possibility, but the odds seem very low that one group gets literally everyone in their group riled up while simultaneously nobody else gives a shit.[2016-2-13. : 2:56 pm] NudeRaider -- I see it more like a double edged sword. (Disclaimer: I only have a very basic understanding of the American voting / delegates system) As you say its (probably intended) side effect is that those in power stay in power but it also works against a legitimate concern: Some very active outsider group makes disproportional effort to target specific groups and gets overwhelming support from them which makes them non-representativ for all voters.[2016-2-13. : 2:51 pm] Moose -- (She also just happened to be the co-chair of Hillary's 2008 presidential campaign against Obama, but is surely unbiased.)[2016-2-13. : 2:47 pm] Moose -- Basically, they can pretend that what the people think actually matters but in almost all cases, really, they actually get to pick.[2016-2-13. : 2:46 pm] Moose -- They have superdelegates to "make sure that party leaders and elected officials don’t have to be in a position where they are running against grassroots activists" LMAO[2016-2-13. : 2:45 pm] Moose -- She isn't a reporter, she's the chair of the Democratic National Committee.[2016-2-13. : 2:44 pm] NudeRaider -- Mini Moose 2707Mini Moose 2707 shouted: LMAO LOLITICS is it me or do both reporters look like they have some mental disability?[2016-2-13. : 2:40 pm] Moose -- > Win primary by 22% > Get fewer delegates > Democracy in two thousand and sixteen > Laughing my ass off! > [2016-2-13. : 2:40 pm] NudeRaider -- jjf28jjf28 shouted: https://youtu.be/Hlblv6_kYpQ?t=3m10s important question: Did Adam and Jamie follow the call? |
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