I would encourage you to look at the discussion I had with JaBoK and/or JaFF in the Free Will topic in SD some months ago. What they had to say is very important concerning this claim, and deals mostly with randomness in quantum mechanics.

Atheism != Fatalism

Saying this is... pretty much saying you are in Fates hands... Which i could see if you look at all of our history it is the exact same... just in differnt eras.
Which if you look back is pretty much true everything in this world happens in a cycle, which no one can explain but it does seem like it happens this way.
If its not random then its planned.
To back this up I just googled this after i said it... http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/787003 <-- same answer lol.
There was even someone in there who said fate, all the other words however also match with fate.

I believe humans are slaves to fate... Even if we can't explain it, We have tried to but we will never have the answer to fate... But it certainly excist in some kind of form.

you're wrong, christian familys always force it on their kids and whoever they can...

infact, I've had several christians try to get me to become christian. My friend is christian and he basically will force his kids to believe in christianity. He gives a lame reason as to why its not forcing, but its kind of obvious that hes going to forcefully "convince" them anyway. Christians basically see it in such a way that if its their kids, they don't have to follow what this country stands for.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 4 2009, 2:18 am by FlamingInferno.

Some do. Most don't. Generalization dosen't help anyone.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

My grandmother is a Christian, and when her husband died she turned to the Church. She's a strong Christian but she doesn't force me to be one too.

Any family with strong religious beliefs can try to force their kids to believe in what they believe in, it's not just Christianity.

Excuse me, but I don't recall saying "just christianity"

I don't recall him saying that you did.

Say most don't when you have christians at your door handing out little booklets about the bible.

Or how about, i've actually met over 3 people on battle.net who try to force religious crap down my throat.

I say "no I don't believe in that" but my effort to get the point across is meaningless becuase they keep blablablablablaing....


then why would he randomly make that point in response to me?

Thanks for needlessly flaming me... now I'll point out how uncalled for your comment was.

1.
Entitlement is a thing that was invented by humans after society made the once naturally selected Human Brain obsolete in terms of survival. (As a race.) To nature, no human has the right to do anything that they can possibly perceive.

2.
Where'd you get this Idea from? DNA is just a thing that acts as a parasite in the way that it possesses a host body and uses it to duplicate itself and prolong it's existence. If you think that intent is malicious? I guess you could describe it in such a way, but I don't see how that description would fit.

3.
"Living" IS an illusion. The only difference between a "living" and a non-"living" thing is it's usefulness to the DNA that it hosts. Organisms are like lifeless puppets pulled around by the strings of DNA. This is a sad truth, the only reason you're able to invent realities such as Life to yourself is because the human abilities of Self-awareness and Higher cognitive thoughts were an evolution that actually worked against the natural selection of the Human Race.

Try thinking a little more before you post some garbage flame.

IMO.. Everything is written out. There's no way of looking or modifying the giant script page that we might as well just say we have free will.

First of all, just because you're born a certain way, it does not logically follow that your fate is predetermined. That said, I believe there are two camps, those that believe in fate and those that don't. I believe in fate, as in every next step is inevitable, and I believe that everything that happens was bound to happen from the beginning, because I believe that there's no randomness in the physical world. If you're born with Down Syndrome, tough luck; if you're born with eighteen eyes, tough luck. Free will doesn't exist, because every decision you make is predetermined.
I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's definitely possible to have life without having what we now define as DNA. Also, stop saying that DNA is pulling strings. It's not sentient. It's not intelligent.

Fate implies order, not design.

Anyone who believes the Universe is ordered can believe in fat.

What you are describing is not fate. Let's say I was to break in a game of pool. The movements of the balls on the table and their final positions would be determined by (in the absence of earthquakes etc.) the way I struck the cue ball. They wouldn't be fated.

However, if I struck the cue ball in the same way and it was somehow to defy the laws of physics and pass through the other balls, ending up on the other side without disturbing them - that could be described as fate. Causality has gone out of the window, and that is what fate means - that no matter what happens, outcome X will occur. Fate therefore implies design, because outcome X has been made to happen, independent of anything else.

What I'm saying is, the fact that you were going to strike those pool balls, and break them, is determined by the sum total of everything that has ever occurred so far. It is fated that that will happen, no matter how mundane it will seem. Another definition of fate is...

"the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time: Fate decreed that they would never meet again. "

What are you arguing against? I already said that it's impossible to have what humans call "Life" because "Life" isn't an actual thing. Why do you think that it's not possible to resurrect somebody after they've died? Why do you think it's impossible to give "Life" to things that do not host DNA? DNA is a being that exists for the sole reason of using a host body to duplicate itself, and don't bother telling me what DNA is/is not because it doesn't have to be "Intelligent" to fulfill it's designed role.

Ok, well you may call that fate, but I'm going by philosophical definitions here, and what you are describing is Hard Determinism, assuming that you believe there is no free-will. The word fate is generally used to refer to a result which happens anyway, independent of what preceded it. This, and indeed the words 'universal agency', imply a power above nature and brings the issue of God into the equation.

I think people our getting fate and God mistaken....
You can have Fate without a God... God has nothing to do with Fate, actually the bible only really goes against Fate... Because it talks about how God gives people Free will to do what ever they please, even though religions have so much distorted the bible that's what they are suppose to believe in.
All I'm saying is everything happens and in looks like a pattern to me...
I'm not saying this is fate... but i do think fate has become the easiest way to explain events that happen.
but what ever it is... humans certainly do not have control over it.
some people may say they have control over their life's but they don't you could wake up tomorrow dead, or you could go to college get a great job and then get fired... We have may have the illusion of free will but in reality something is controlling it for us and we don't know what it is... So some of us say God some of us say evolution... What ever it is... Its out there and I'm certain of that.