Staredit Network > Forums > Serious Discussion > Topic: The first and second laws of thermodynamics FAIL
The first and second laws of thermodynamics FAIL
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Mar 4 2008, 6:45 am
By: Rantent  

Mar 4 2008, 6:45 am Rantent Post #1



Thats right, energy is not conserved!
At the molecular level Brownian motion is more prevalent than in large scale models, in that as you get down to the particle level, things happen more and more at random. Now Scientists have discovered a nanomachine that utilizes this random motion in an effective way. Or rather, they have discovered a way for a rotaxane molecule to function like a leg, pushing particles one way or another. They've also found that it is possible to direct whether or not the movement can happen by effectively jamming something in to stop it. Or bonding the molecule to an inhibitor.
Furthermore, they have proposed that this is the method which RNA Polymerase, which moves along our DNA to transcribe some mRNA, has been utilizing this effect of Brownian motion for millennia. The mechanism in which it moves along the DNA strand is randomized, yet it is triggered by bonding sites to go only forward. It uses no total energy to move, therefor creating energy! :D

No Steorn magicz were used in the making of this post.



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Mar 4 2008, 7:23 am Demented Shaman Post #2



There's an article about this in a recent science news weekly magazine.



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Mar 4 2008, 1:08 pm AntiSleep Post #3



um, in the event the ratchet gear catches, where does that energy go? Seriously, this is in no way a refutation of any law of thermodynamics, it isn't even as interesting as maxwell's demon.



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Mar 4 2008, 6:46 pm frazz Post #4



Your argument lacks substance. How does this machine decrease entropy?



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Mar 5 2008, 12:26 pm Syphon Post #5



Ya... No.



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Mar 7 2008, 8:30 pm Vi3t-X Post #6



I can see how this can be useful, but how does it create energy?



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Mar 8 2008, 2:13 am Syphon Post #7



Quote from Vi3t-X
I can see how this can be useful, but how does it create energy?

It doesn't.



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Mar 9 2008, 4:08 am Akar Post #8



Force != Energy



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Jul 15 2009, 12:05 am Zxblqcktptyjsplkn Post #9



The Brownian Motion is stopped in order to move something else.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 15 2009, 7:42 am by Dapperdan. Reason: don't grave-dig



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Jul 15 2009, 4:55 am CecilSunkure Post #10



This is kinda old news, I went over this in my IB Bio class..

And no it doesn't create energy, if I remember correctly it uses ATP to move, or whatever the "rod" was carrying to as energy to move. But I may be wrong about the ATP, I think that was what was "suggested" to move the rod during the teaching of my class. It doesn't matter.. The point is:
Quote
It uses no total energy to move
Uhm, doesn't that mean that there was no energy created nor lost? If it used negative total energy to move, then that would be "creating" energy.

The laws still stand (Even though evolution sort of requires them to not).. I tease I tease :D



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